>What is the expected compensation for participants? Compensation varies based on experience level and agency placement. Annual salaries are expected to be in the approximate range of $150,000 to $200,000. Benefits include health insurance, retirement plans, paid time off, and eligibility for performance-based awards.
>Tech Force will primarily recruit early-career technologists
So "early-career" but they're going to get paid GS-14/15 pay[1] in DC? New grad engineers in DC are going to be GS-7/9 at best. This is either a blatant lie, or created by someone who has no idea of how federal pay works (or both).
As an aside, I was a fed for >10 years and left last year for industry but stay in touch with friends still working federal jobs. Before this administration recruiting was extremely difficult and candidate quality was low. I've heard that it's nearly impossible now and in the last 18 months they've only been able to hire a single person. Federal jobs used to be considered stable, with good benefits, but low pay. Now they're unstable, the current administration is actively working to make benefits worse, and the pay is still really low.
> Before this administration recruiting was extremely difficult and candidate quality was low. I've heard that it's nearly impossible now and in the last 18 months they've only been able to hire a single person. Federal jobs used to be considered stable, with good benefits, but low pay. Now they're unstable, the current administration is actively working to make benefits worse, and the pay is still really low.
Also, many people took pride in the service they provided to their country (or to the people, or as part of a team that did good, however they thought of it).
I don't have high hopes for this new thing.
After recent treatment of federal employees, and other things going on in the US this year, including how USDS as DOGE was weaponized against the US... I'd expect this new thing to only be able to recruit from these categories:
1. Outright bad people, with anti-US, looter/saboteur intent, as we've seen from other facets recently. They will focus on their own bad-person individual interests.
2. People who aren't bad, but who are so cognitively impaired, that they still don't realize that they're probably going to get screwed personally and/or directed to be the baddies. They will be bad at everything they do.
3. People who are intelligent and pro-US, and have no illusions about what they're signing up for, but who desperately need the income, after being screwed earlier this year. They won't be inspired to execute well on whatever anti-US directives they're given.
Before all of this happened the hiring I had to deal with when I was federal fell into similar buckets:
1. Completely inept or lazy people that couldn't get a job anywhere else (~50%)
2. Smart people that took the job because it was close to their family (~30%)
3. Smart people that took the job because they liked the the specific mission and felt like it was really important (~10%)
4. Smart people that took the job after retiring from a private industry job as a sort of laid-back post-retirement hobby (we called them re-treads, ~10%)
From what I've heard, a lot of federal employers can only hire from the #1 category now, and the applicants in that category have gotten worse.
4. People who are intelligent and Republican, have no illusions about what they're signing up for, and are fully committed to following the orders of President Trump and his cabinet without questioning ethics or legalities.
(1) Are you saying it's bad if they're upping engineer pay to be more competitive, or you're just skeptical that they will?
(2) I'd actually like the American government to pay better wages for its engineers, and optimize for hiring the best, rather than those desiring a stable, low-paying bureaucracy — I don't think that attracts the best people.
(3) On talent and recruiting: This is being done by the National Design Studio, it says at the bottom. That's led by a cofounder of Airbnb - I know one person who works at the National Design Studio and he's a phenomenal engineer. The administration also has the involvement of David Sacks, who founded Craft Ventures and is pretty well-known in SV. I think this is probably the most tech-competent the government will have been in a long time. I'm not crediting Trump at all for that, to be clear - just pointing out that tech talent in government seems to be getting better, not worse.
If I was late-career with a good solid financial foundation im place and just looking to work to cover living expenses the Federal Gov as fucked as it may be doesn't seem like a bad gig. Since the bar is so incredibly fucking low you just mail it in and collect the money and when youre furloughed you play golf or do extra hobbies. The ball just needs to keep moving, it doesn't actually need to move quickly. Heck it doesn't even need to necessarily move forward.
At least in 2010, it was common for new grads to get GS-14/GS-15 pay for in-demand tech skills. It's a bit odd that early career folks would start out at the max of the pay band, but it is what it is. These were for roles which required a clearance.
Not for people with just a BS, at least outside certain areas (DC) and roles (cybersecurity). GS-12 was a more typical "target" position (with GS-13 on occasion, like at some of the labs) back in 2010. A masters or a PhD could have bumped you up to GS-13/14/15 though.
Target: People typically enter, when coming out of college, at a lower grade in the GS-5/7/9 area with a target position of one of GS-11/12/13. IT (not CS) folks were often in GS-11 targeted positions, computer scientists and engineers often in GS-12 positions. They'd get promoted in two grade increases (5 to 7, 7 to 9, 9 to 11) or one grade increases (11 to 12, 12 to 13) until they hit their target grade. At a rate of either one increase per year or per 6 months depending on when they got hired, by what agency, and in what role. An IT person, usually one increase per year; engineer, typically two increases per year. Computer scientists usually got screwed and got one increase per year which meant you had fewer of them wanting to work for the government (they also, at that time, rarely got signing bonuses). This leaves a lot of the software shops in DOD (where I had experience) mostly filled with aerospace and electrical engineers.
"Cyber" roles (security; which could be a couple different job series) in some agencies jumped up faster or had a higher target grade due to the need (or perceived need) for more people.
> Not for people with just a BS, at least outside certain areas (DC) and roles (cybersecurity)
Based on the FAQ, US Tech Force roles are located in DC (so they'll get the DC adjustment) and from the sounds of it, this proposal is the AI Washing the "Cyber Service" or "Cyber Exempted Service".
Also, based on Scott Kupor's (former Managing Parter at A16Z turned head of OPM) memo [0] it appears they seem to be using the same approach used to start the USDS back in the Obama admin. And based on their mention of "fellows", I think they'll merging parts of what used to be the Presidential Management Fellows program.
If AI-washing and Trump-washing helps maintain the core of these programs, there's nothing wrong with that.
Edit:
Dug deeper thru the FAQ - it's basically an AI washed version of the PMF and PIF.
I was responding to someone's claim about new grads (read the comment I responded to), not about US Tech Force. The person I responded to claimed that it was common for new grads (circa 2010) to jump in at GS-14/15. That was not common.
It could be a bias in the roles I was looking at - but coming in with physics undergrad for computer science roles, that was the standard set of roles in the Boston area for defense roles. Granted, these were mostly with private contractors who mirrored the GS pay scale along with their supporting government offices.
Ahh! My bad! Yea you're absolutely right - aside from PMFs who came out of grad programs you aren't see a new grad starting beyond GS7/8 in most cases.
It's also why a large portion of Gov employees end up jumping ship to professional services firms like BAH, Deloitte, Accenture, etc.
I know it's annoying now to nitpick over what's AI generated, but I'm noticing their robot mascot has two different incorrect American flags on its sweater..
Yeah my first thought was that this already existed, was doing great work, and got canned by DOGE in favor of what appears to be a MUCH MUCH more expensive version of it here.
No, USDS was about modernizing the government's tech systems in general.
This one is about jamming AI into shit:
> Tech Force will be an elite group of ~1,000 technology specialists hired by agencies to accelerate artificial intelligence (AI) implementation and solve the federal government's most critical technological challenges.
Figures this comes from the National Design Studio (https://ndstudio.gov/) which ironically also ignores the government's own advice on web standards and correct use of identifying headers.
One can assume the US Tech Force will perceive itself as also unfettered by those silly rules and good practices.
I know it's par for the course these days, but that's a lot of Js and CSS for a single page app with some text, a few images, and a list of collapsible info sections (whose animations aren't very smooth).
My actual first thought was "Is this a hoax?" precisely because the website did not identify itself as a US government website in the usual way for executive branch sites.
I didn't mean the logo (honestly didn't even notice). I was talking about the robot guy's t-shirt - it does have 13 stripes, but the number and layout of stars look rather play-it-by-ear.
"What's the biggest brand in the world? If you said Trump, you're not wrong. But what's the foundation of that brand? One that's more globally recognized than practically anything else.
...
This is President Trump going bigger than President Nixon"
> Additional benefits include professional development opportunities, networking with government and industry leaders, and a pathway to continued public service or private sector careers.
Given the lack of mention of any benefits prior to this, it sure sounds like "you'll get lots of exposure!"
edit: not sure if they just added it, or if I just missed it, but there is an FAQ entry on compensation:
> Compensation varies based on experience level and agency placement. Annual salaries are expected to be in the approximate range of $150,000 to $200,000. Benefits include health insurance, retirement plans, paid time off, and eligibility for performance-based awards.
Yeah, given the primary benefit of government jobs like this is usually the stability, pension etc when you’re offering absolutely none of that you really need to look down the back of the couch for some benefits.
For me as someone that would potentially be interested in and qualified for one of these roles, the DOGE actions earlier this year and ongoing firing of nonpartisan & non-appointed that don't tow the current ruling party line ruined the stability benefit. I think it also casts doubt on the pension aspect, but I know less about what's required to get pension in US fed positions.
I was super-interested in this years ago. My interest vanished when I encountered the “tour of duty” concept. I don’t make FAANG money so the pay was roughly a lateral move for me if it’d included retirement, but having it be time-bound rather than career-oriented was a huge turnoff. Was ready to make that my whole deal, potentially for the rest of my life.
The US going politically totally batshit crazy shortly after ended up making it for the best that I did’t join, but still, it struck me as weird that they had to set it up with that extra sting of “we have to make sure this is a sacrifice”.
I think the stability is the traditional perk of government work (in exchange for a smaller salary). The funding trouble does make it seem like less of a fair trade…
>Given the lack of mention of any benefits prior to this, it sure sounds like "you'll get lots of exposure!"
Well, they are also "partnering" with some private sector companies. I guess the idea is that candidates will put in their 2 years, then take their contact list and join federal sales arm of one of the private companies.
The initial roster of private sector partners includes Adobe, Amazon Web Services, AMD, Anduril, Apple, Box, C3.ai, Coinbase, Databricks, Dell Technologies, Docusign, Google Public Sector, IBM, Meta, Microsoft, Nvidia, OpenAI, Oracle, Palantir, Salesforce, SAP, ServiceNow, Snowflake, Robinhood, Uber, Workday, xAI, and Zoom. This list will expand over time.
Are there any companies on that list who haven't made gross public displays of servitude towards the current administration?
Because in this administration, I guess it is different.
The "US Government" are the people and agencies that DOGE tried to get rid of and that were taken out of their jobs or unable to provide any services due to the shutdown.
Whereas "The White House" is Trump and his buddies.
I was just browsing this website and found that the jobs are actually listed at https://www.usajobs.gov I think.
The latter website, job search, job details and help center look actually nice. Unfortunately I'm living in EU and not an American citizen, but I wish EU did something similar.
(There is https://eures.europa.eu but just like almost any other EU website, the design is very confusing and cluttered)
> Tech Force will primarily recruit early-career technologists
> Tech Force will include centralized organization and programming and serve as a recruiting platform post-employment.
Be prepared to struggle at the end of your two year placement because you have no idea how this is going to look on your resume two years from now. Maybe it’ll have the gravitas of having worked at the former USDS. But maybe it’ll be the black mark of having worked at DOGE. The latter feels much more likely than the former.
You will have no control over this outcome. If I had to bet I’d say they will take advantage of your junior status to get you to do the kind of wildly irresponsible hacking, slashing and AI injecting that a more senior engineer would object to and you’re going to face some tough questions in subsequent job interviews.
Employers would have to be pretty spiteful to look at it the way you purposed. I wouldn't want a spiteful employer.
The flip side is that a lot of government jobs lead to pretty good private sector opportunities working with those same agencies. If you want to contact to DOE, knowing how it works in the inside and knowing people there definitely helps.
A lot of military contractors are former military. Who better to design something for a soldier than a soldier?
I have hired people to work under me. Generally, if someone can pass the interview and do the job, I don't care that much about your views unless you are very outwardly with them. The only time I had to filter out a candidate was due to a quick check of his public social media where he was "enthusiastically" pro Palestine with questionable posts.
That being said, having interviewed plenty of ex government or government adjacent people, not a single one can pass even a mediocre interview problem. Most people who work for the government show up expecting to be told what to do, then do it - very few can independently think for themselves.
For example, my interview problems are designed to be solved most efficiently with implementing parallelization, but they sound like regular interview problems, so even with LLMs a lot of candidates usually can't solve it unless they give the LLM specific instructions to implement threads, which requires understanding of the problem.
Employers would have to be pretty spiteful to look at it the way you purposed.
It's not always that black and white. In spite of appearances, many many companies make hiring decisions based on things other than what's in a resume.
For example, a company may have $mm contracts with another company whose owners/operators/shareholders/etc. favor one particular view, political party, or social construct. That company will most certainly look down upon the other company hiring people of a particular background.
Or the pressure could be internal. A couple of times in my life I've worked for companies where certain departments were unionized. Even if you weren't in one of those departments, if the company hired you and you had a particular background, the union would object.
> Employers would have to be pretty spiteful to look at it the way you purposed
I disagree. If a persons resume contains description of blatantly harmful work how else can I interpret it but negatively? At best you’d have to chalk it up to “just following orders” but I don’t want blind obedience in a prospective employee either.
The destruction caused by DOGE is evident to anyone with eyes, as is the agency’s complete lack of achievement. I would absolutely be asking questions about why someone remained there.
You seem to be assuming that someone who remained working for DOGE would even want to work for a company who would pass them over for having worked for DOGE.
These employees will be hired by the companies they helped integrate. Not a single one will look on them poorly. They will have domain knowledge, turf knowledge, and they won't argue about working with MAGA for money.
Embracing MAGA on your resume can pay dividends when they’re in power. Perhaps less so once the tide (inevitably) turns. There’s a reason a lot of gov tech folks deliberately paint themselves as non partisan.
Even that might be changing. I follow some defense industry folks and I've never seen a time when they were less pro-republican. The gross incompetence and maliciousness by this administration is deeply concerning to most people in the industry. The idiocy we're seeing regarding Venezuela, Russia/Ukraine, alienating every single ally, fumbling on China, and more are putting the US in a much much weaker position going forward. Everyone who's paying attention and not happily in on some graft knows to be worried.
I think you are right that you could face some challenges during the screening process but if you get to the interview this should be easy to explain with a face saving excuse.
"The tech industry was doing poorly and I was faced with a layoff so I took whatever job I could get. While I didn't agree with the actions of the administration I felt like I could be a force for good in an otherwise turbulent environment"
As we all know Nazi scientists went on to work for and lead parts of Nasa. The reputation hit of disreputable employers is dramatically overblown.
To be honest you can also get through issues with the resume screening process you can generally just change the wording and section headers a bit in order to avoid a quick filter out.
I'm pretty much a closet conservative working for big tech so I've had a lot of practice with this sort of stuff :D
I'd wager "scientist with a deep background in research of rocket propolsion technology in the 1950s" was a bit more difficult to come by than "early-career software developer who integrated a bunch of APIs and maybe wrote a frontend in React".
Did I miss congress passing a new set of laws creating the US Tech Force? I'm confused, as this seems like a direct and open violation of the Appointments Clause.
Top level hiring is a close knit network. The FAQ I wanted to see answered: who’s onboard already, and how do I know them / how might I have heard of them / what have they done before?
I’m going to make a guess that the answers are missing for a reason.
> No, Tech Force positions are not political appointments. Participants are hired as federal employees based on their technical qualifications and serve in non-partisan roles focused on technology implementation.
Will you be forced to set a politically biased out-of-office message that blames the Other Side when you're inevitably furloughed during the next funding crisis?
Given the current administration's desire for unmitigated power, and SCOTUS' inclination to give it to them, there's really no such thing as a non-partisan role anymore. When you can be fired at any moment for any action the regime deems disloyal, you can't be nonpartisan.
They might as well be political appointments after Trump v Slaughter is decided since the unitary executive maximalists would swallow all for-cause job termination protections that have defined the professional civil service.
Space Force, Tech Force, Ass Force. What a stupid timeline. I've been promoting government work (state, not federal) to my friends ever since I landed a sweet gig. It's awesome. Guess what job I won't seek.
==> We are going to build infrastructure with teams of people who won't stay longer than two years. Nobody has thought about this long enough to realise this might be a problem.
It looks like this is trying to fit into the same space as the former USDS and F18 which had term appointments. The key idea behind those was the industry partnership (recruiting experienced people from industry) and the knowledge/skills transfer that came with it. If you look at some other programs (Peace Corps, for instance) you'll see a similar thing. 2-year terms with extensions up to maybe 5 total years.
What's funny is the retirement benefits won't apply to most 2-year term employees. Unless they were prior military or civil service, or come back later, two years is not long enough to keep the TSP match (three year vesting period) or to qualify for the pension (five years). (EDIT: Funny because they explicitly list it as a benefit, but these folks won't qualify for it.)
The funny thing here is that the short (often 1-3 years) tenure that's so common in the industry leads to some absolute dogshit software. Good things take time. By limiting terms to 2 years you almost guarantee that outcome.
The biggest red flag on engineering resumes is never sticking at something for more than 2 years. Your bad decisions never catch up to you.
How is this different from 18F (a group within GSA which Elon killed), US Digital Service (which Elon kind of converted to DOGE) or Defense Digital Service (DDS)?
Is the only difference that the current government can claim they started this (completely ignoring they dismantled the previous programs)?
Now that the administration killed 18-F and USDS, they need a new organization that does the same thing but consists of people loyal to this administration.
More seriously, one big difference is that USDS recognized that design is as important as technology. This org only wants engineering-types.
> We're looking for expertise in software engineering, artificial intelligence, cybersecurity, data analytics, or technical project management. Strong problem-solving abilities and a passion for public service are essential.
Something often observed in authoritarian states is duplication of effort because of empire building. The ruler cannot trust any of his underlings- they are all sucking up to him and backstabbing each other constantly, so he pits them against each other, assigning overlapping responsibilities on purpose to keep any one subordinate from becoming too strong. This is why all of the "fascism/communism is so efficient" arguments need to actually look at the nature of Soviet or Nazi governments. As an example, there were at least five completely separate armed ground forces in Nazi Germany (1).
This constant competition between parts of the government actually led to tremendous waste. You can see it again in the Soviet space program during the 1960's. While NASA had a single purpose of getting to the moon before 1971 with a unified organization under the control of a single leader, after Khrushchev was deposed (and Korolev died) the Soviet space program splintered into a war between the old OKB-1 (Korolev's group) and Chelomei's OKB-52 that lasted for twenty years over Super-Proton vs Energia etc.
1: The Wehrmacht and the Waffen-SS are the two most famous, but the Luftwaffe recruited, trained and equipped the Fallschirm-Panzer Korps and Fallshchirmjaeger- yes, German paratroops worked for Goering not the Wehrmacht. There were also five Marine Infantry Divisions under the Navy- they had half as many Marine Divisions as the US did, despite many fewer amphibious assaults! And the Volksturm, at the end of the war when things looked grim for Nazi Germany, was under NSDAP party control but separate from the Waffen-SS.
Don't forget to work in "dominance" and "lethality"! It really, truly, is all about criticizing and tearing the old thing down, and belatedly stepping it up again with neoconservative vibes.
Yeah, this is nothing more than grandstanding idealism. Their staff will no doubtably be as dumb as Space Force or Air Force when it comes to cloud and technology. I've dealt with them in various forms throughout the years contracting. BESPIN was entirely contractor driven. Their devops pipelines and how to deploy things. If that's your indicator, good luck.
Fortunately that's addressed in the extremely fine FAQ:
> How is Tech Force related to other government technology programs, including ones at GSA or the United States DOGE Service?
> While Tech Force will coordinate across all of government, it is distinct from other technology initiatives within government, including the United States DOGE Service and programs managed by GSA. These programs differ in their mandates, structure, required skillsets, and ability to convert to the competitive service.
> Participants will work on high-impact technology initiatives including AI implementation, application development, data modernization, and digital service delivery across federal agencies.
> The initial roster of private sector partners includes Adobe, Amazon Web Services, AMD, Anduril, Apple, Box, C3.ai, Coinbase, Databricks, Dell Technologies, Docusign, Google Public Sector, IBM, Meta, Microsoft, Nvidia, OpenAI, Oracle, Palantir, Salesforce, SAP, ServiceNow, Snowflake, Robinhood, Uber, Workday, xAI, and Zoom. This list will expand over time.
Ever wanted to get involved in government-sanctioned espionage technology? This seems like an recruitment effort for that. Applicants beware. Remember that in just 3 years this will stop helping you to get hired, and will probably look like a blemish on your CV when you eventually need to get a new job.
This is a thing you can only say if you know very little about the talent pipeline for actual espionage technology in the USG, which: they do not have a lot of problems there. Lots of people don't share your precise values about espionage or about espionage technology, and the real jobs in this field are extremely high-status. There's competition to get them.
> This is a thing you can only say if you know very little about the talent pipeline for actual espionage technology in the USG
Or something one might want to say if they want to still have plausible deniability about not having been there, yet still want to say something. Who knows.
The USG does not want plausible deniability about this. They actively recruit on elite engineering campuses over it. It is super fucking interesting work and candidates compete for the opportunity to do it. If you think otherwise, you're in a filter bubble.
There is this consistent myth by the most radical faction of people in the country. They are only the most radical 5 or 10%, but they seem to believe their anti-nationalist, anti-government, anti-American views are much more widely share than they are. The vast majority of American's view working in the defense industry, espionage, etc as a good thing.
There are ways in which it clearly is a good thing. I don't have my head around how people could oppose CNE operations aimed at counterproliferation, for example. But obviously, it's morally fraught work (fraught, meaning complicated, a minefield, not meaning "damnable") and I don't have the stomach (or, really, the talent) for it.
Theres a spectrum too it. Helping design fighter jets and missiles? Yes that has to be done with the idea that the weapons you are designing for national security can and most likely will be used in such a way that will cause harm. However in espionage or cyber security, those are almost all pure good. You are protecting information or attaining information.
The main myth though is that somehow there is this idea that someone working as a booze allen contractor for the NSA or CIA is going to now be blackballed by everyone out of disgust. Most people will see it as good, and most companies just want talent and dont actually care about what areas people are in.
> If you think otherwise, you're in a filter bubble.
Belittling. Excellent way to get your point across.
> They actively recruit on elite engineering campuses over it. It is super fucking interesting work and candidates compete for the opportunity to do it.
This seems like it should be an easy thing to verify with some sort of reference. This is exactly what the parent comment is suggesting and you still flippantly are avoiding it as "trust me bro". I actually believe you, so why don't you share some evidence then?
I don't really care in this instance, because the information I'm relaying here is obviously, verifiably correct. It's not like, a persuasion challenge for me here. I'm just relating basic facts.
I'm not talking about the USG... Yes yes, it's great work and no drawbacks, particularly not considering the moral and ethical implications. But please do continue try to help them recruit while purposefully misunderstand what I write.
They do not need my help recruiting and the fact that you think an HN thread has any impact whatsoever on elite CS talent matriculating into CNE programs is further evidence you may be in a filter bubble. Not understanding this can't possibly help your cause.
>Remember that in just 3 years this will stop helping you to get hired, and will probably look like a blemish on your CV when you eventually need to get a new job.
The worst part about this entire political is that Dems are most likely gonna win, and everyone will just move on.
Im really hoping that Trump lives long enough to actually stage a coup and tank the US economy so hard that things like working for this or DOGE actually do start to matter.
> and will probably look like a blemish on your CV when you eventually need to get a new job.
Not necessarily, especially in the private sector. It's hard to justify not hiring an excellent employee because he or she worked for a company you don't like. Especially if the hiring panel is composed by >1 person.
Right… because those definitely don’t already assist three-letter agencies and the presence of the largest tech companies on the planet on your CV will definitely somehow become a net negative because uh, orange man bad? I assume that’s what the 3 year window is about?
This is not a political appointment, but if you have mentioned something even mildly negative about a certain person in the past, not only we'll walk you out, we'll probably arrest you!
You can go ahead and add this to the list of job experiences that will earn you a "Definitely Not" rating from me in the hiring committee, along with doge, palantir, coinbase, etc.
This looks like a way to force a few key players to gobble up all the federal dollars by forcing many executive controlled agencies to be force fed these LLM solutions because these same key players cannot sell their wares to the public so they need to steal public money, once again.
Is DOGE still there? The latest reporting [1] I've seen is that it's leaderless and has more or less just been absorbed into other organizations. This aligns with DOGE not posting anything for several months now.
Ugh. I didn't realize until looking at the "US Tech Force" FAQ that USDS is now "United States DOGE Service." Somehow I assumed it had just faded away when all the good people left.
That's its official name. Obama had created the US Digital Service (USDS) back in 2014- it was essentially a formalization of the "Tiger Team" that had fixed Healthcare.gov the year before. The idea was that you would take mid-career to senior SDE's, PM's, UX people, DevOps, etc. from industry, and bring them into the government for a 2-3 year period, where they would jump into a specific government IT thing and fix it up, revamp and improve, and then after a few years leave the USDS and go back to industry. It was part of the Executive Office of the President, though it was funded by Congress through 2024 (and then via CR like the rest of the government until the shutdown).
It wasn't a large group, and they weren't really responsible for much so they never got much attention. They would just try and fix a few specific pain points at a time. I only knew about it because one of the best PM's I ever worked for did a stint exactly like it was supposed to work- she joined the USDS, worked for the American people for a few years, then left and went back to industry.
And then on January 21st, 2025, his first full day in office, Trump renamed the USDS to the United States DOGE Service, because USDS had money to pay salaries and since it was part of the EotP he could easily hire new people without civil service restrictions. So he could bring in new people (Big Balls etc.) easily enough. By February, essentially everyone who had been in the USDS on the last day of Biden's term were either laid off or resigned. And since then the USDS has been entirely DOGEified.
Oh come on, quality of life has improved so much in the world in the last 50 years! With progress like that, it's fine to set aside your values for a few years at a time ...
>Tech Force will primarily recruit early-career technologists
So "early-career" but they're going to get paid GS-14/15 pay[1] in DC? New grad engineers in DC are going to be GS-7/9 at best. This is either a blatant lie, or created by someone who has no idea of how federal pay works (or both).
As an aside, I was a fed for >10 years and left last year for industry but stay in touch with friends still working federal jobs. Before this administration recruiting was extremely difficult and candidate quality was low. I've heard that it's nearly impossible now and in the last 18 months they've only been able to hire a single person. Federal jobs used to be considered stable, with good benefits, but low pay. Now they're unstable, the current administration is actively working to make benefits worse, and the pay is still really low.
[1] https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries...
Also, many people took pride in the service they provided to their country (or to the people, or as part of a team that did good, however they thought of it).
I don't have high hopes for this new thing.
After recent treatment of federal employees, and other things going on in the US this year, including how USDS as DOGE was weaponized against the US... I'd expect this new thing to only be able to recruit from these categories:
1. Outright bad people, with anti-US, looter/saboteur intent, as we've seen from other facets recently. They will focus on their own bad-person individual interests.
2. People who aren't bad, but who are so cognitively impaired, that they still don't realize that they're probably going to get screwed personally and/or directed to be the baddies. They will be bad at everything they do.
3. People who are intelligent and pro-US, and have no illusions about what they're signing up for, but who desperately need the income, after being screwed earlier this year. They won't be inspired to execute well on whatever anti-US directives they're given.
1. Completely inept or lazy people that couldn't get a job anywhere else (~50%)
2. Smart people that took the job because it was close to their family (~30%)
3. Smart people that took the job because they liked the the specific mission and felt like it was really important (~10%)
4. Smart people that took the job after retiring from a private industry job as a sort of laid-back post-retirement hobby (we called them re-treads, ~10%)
From what I've heard, a lot of federal employers can only hire from the #1 category now, and the applicants in that category have gotten worse.
(2) I'd actually like the American government to pay better wages for its engineers, and optimize for hiring the best, rather than those desiring a stable, low-paying bureaucracy — I don't think that attracts the best people.
(3) On talent and recruiting: This is being done by the National Design Studio, it says at the bottom. That's led by a cofounder of Airbnb - I know one person who works at the National Design Studio and he's a phenomenal engineer. The administration also has the involvement of David Sacks, who founded Craft Ventures and is pretty well-known in SV. I think this is probably the most tech-competent the government will have been in a long time. I'm not crediting Trump at all for that, to be clear - just pointing out that tech talent in government seems to be getting better, not worse.
Target: People typically enter, when coming out of college, at a lower grade in the GS-5/7/9 area with a target position of one of GS-11/12/13. IT (not CS) folks were often in GS-11 targeted positions, computer scientists and engineers often in GS-12 positions. They'd get promoted in two grade increases (5 to 7, 7 to 9, 9 to 11) or one grade increases (11 to 12, 12 to 13) until they hit their target grade. At a rate of either one increase per year or per 6 months depending on when they got hired, by what agency, and in what role. An IT person, usually one increase per year; engineer, typically two increases per year. Computer scientists usually got screwed and got one increase per year which meant you had fewer of them wanting to work for the government (they also, at that time, rarely got signing bonuses). This leaves a lot of the software shops in DOD (where I had experience) mostly filled with aerospace and electrical engineers.
"Cyber" roles (security; which could be a couple different job series) in some agencies jumped up faster or had a higher target grade due to the need (or perceived need) for more people.
Based on the FAQ, US Tech Force roles are located in DC (so they'll get the DC adjustment) and from the sounds of it, this proposal is the AI Washing the "Cyber Service" or "Cyber Exempted Service".
Also, based on Scott Kupor's (former Managing Parter at A16Z turned head of OPM) memo [0] it appears they seem to be using the same approach used to start the USDS back in the Obama admin. And based on their mention of "fellows", I think they'll merging parts of what used to be the Presidential Management Fellows program.
If AI-washing and Trump-washing helps maintain the core of these programs, there's nothing wrong with that.
Edit:
Dug deeper thru the FAQ - it's basically an AI washed version of the PMF and PIF.
[0] - https://www.opm.gov/chcoc/latest-memos/building-the-ai-workf...
So they weren't federal jobs?
It's also why a large portion of Gov employees end up jumping ship to professional services firms like BAH, Deloitte, Accenture, etc.
Paid time off???
Health insurance???
Retirement plans????
OMG this is incredible! What an offer!
/s
https://www.usds.gov/
This one is about jamming AI into shit:
> Tech Force will be an elite group of ~1,000 technology specialists hired by agencies to accelerate artificial intelligence (AI) implementation and solve the federal government's most critical technological challenges.
One can assume the US Tech Force will perceive itself as also unfettered by those silly rules and good practices.
This government is a joke.
"What's the biggest brand in the world? If you said Trump, you're not wrong. But what's the foundation of that brand? One that's more globally recognized than practically anything else.
...
This is President Trump going bigger than President Nixon"
Jesus christ, man
> Additional benefits include professional development opportunities, networking with government and industry leaders, and a pathway to continued public service or private sector careers.
Given the lack of mention of any benefits prior to this, it sure sounds like "you'll get lots of exposure!"
edit: not sure if they just added it, or if I just missed it, but there is an FAQ entry on compensation:
> Compensation varies based on experience level and agency placement. Annual salaries are expected to be in the approximate range of $150,000 to $200,000. Benefits include health insurance, retirement plans, paid time off, and eligibility for performance-based awards.
The US going politically totally batshit crazy shortly after ended up making it for the best that I did’t join, but still, it struck me as weird that they had to set it up with that extra sting of “we have to make sure this is a sacrifice”.
"Backed by the White House"
I don't think this is the kind of exposure most people are going to want, nor will they want this on their resume.
Well, they are also "partnering" with some private sector companies. I guess the idea is that candidates will put in their 2 years, then take their contact list and join federal sales arm of one of the private companies.
The initial roster of private sector partners includes Adobe, Amazon Web Services, AMD, Anduril, Apple, Box, C3.ai, Coinbase, Databricks, Dell Technologies, Docusign, Google Public Sector, IBM, Meta, Microsoft, Nvidia, OpenAI, Oracle, Palantir, Salesforce, SAP, ServiceNow, Snowflake, Robinhood, Uber, Workday, xAI, and Zoom. This list will expand over time.
Are there any companies on that list who haven't made gross public displays of servitude towards the current administration?
You don't say...
Somehow it hits differently than the similar phrase, "backed by the full faith and credit of the US Govt."
The "US Government" are the people and agencies that DOGE tried to get rid of and that were taken out of their jobs or unable to provide any services due to the shutdown.
Whereas "The White House" is Trump and his buddies.
Welcome to the autocracy...
The latter website, job search, job details and help center look actually nice. Unfortunately I'm living in EU and not an American citizen, but I wish EU did something similar.
(There is https://eures.europa.eu but just like almost any other EU website, the design is very confusing and cluttered)
> Tech Force will include centralized organization and programming and serve as a recruiting platform post-employment.
Be prepared to struggle at the end of your two year placement because you have no idea how this is going to look on your resume two years from now. Maybe it’ll have the gravitas of having worked at the former USDS. But maybe it’ll be the black mark of having worked at DOGE. The latter feels much more likely than the former.
You will have no control over this outcome. If I had to bet I’d say they will take advantage of your junior status to get you to do the kind of wildly irresponsible hacking, slashing and AI injecting that a more senior engineer would object to and you’re going to face some tough questions in subsequent job interviews.
The flip side is that a lot of government jobs lead to pretty good private sector opportunities working with those same agencies. If you want to contact to DOE, knowing how it works in the inside and knowing people there definitely helps.
A lot of military contractors are former military. Who better to design something for a soldier than a soldier?
I have hired people to work under me. Generally, if someone can pass the interview and do the job, I don't care that much about your views unless you are very outwardly with them. The only time I had to filter out a candidate was due to a quick check of his public social media where he was "enthusiastically" pro Palestine with questionable posts.
That being said, having interviewed plenty of ex government or government adjacent people, not a single one can pass even a mediocre interview problem. Most people who work for the government show up expecting to be told what to do, then do it - very few can independently think for themselves.
For example, my interview problems are designed to be solved most efficiently with implementing parallelization, but they sound like regular interview problems, so even with LLMs a lot of candidates usually can't solve it unless they give the LLM specific instructions to implement threads, which requires understanding of the problem.
I see this a lot in the private sector too here in Seattle. It's hurting us badly.
It's not always that black and white. In spite of appearances, many many companies make hiring decisions based on things other than what's in a resume.
For example, a company may have $mm contracts with another company whose owners/operators/shareholders/etc. favor one particular view, political party, or social construct. That company will most certainly look down upon the other company hiring people of a particular background.
Or the pressure could be internal. A couple of times in my life I've worked for companies where certain departments were unionized. Even if you weren't in one of those departments, if the company hired you and you had a particular background, the union would object.
The real world is very complex.
I disagree. If a persons resume contains description of blatantly harmful work how else can I interpret it but negatively? At best you’d have to chalk it up to “just following orders” but I don’t want blind obedience in a prospective employee either.
The destruction caused by DOGE is evident to anyone with eyes, as is the agency’s complete lack of achievement. I would absolutely be asking questions about why someone remained there.
"The tech industry was doing poorly and I was faced with a layoff so I took whatever job I could get. While I didn't agree with the actions of the administration I felt like I could be a force for good in an otherwise turbulent environment"
As we all know Nazi scientists went on to work for and lead parts of Nasa. The reputation hit of disreputable employers is dramatically overblown.
To be honest you can also get through issues with the resume screening process you can generally just change the wording and section headers a bit in order to avoid a quick filter out.
I'm pretty much a closet conservative working for big tech so I've had a lot of practice with this sort of stuff :D
The difference is, those scientists were literally the best of the best in the world when it came to rocketry.
All their assistants did not share the same fate.
But generally, unless something drastic happens politically, companies won't care that much.
I’m going to make a guess that the answers are missing for a reason.
Will you be forced to set a politically biased out-of-office message that blames the Other Side when you're inevitably furloughed during the next funding crisis?
US administration seems to be making lots of moves and aggressively changing stance...but is this actually translating to real change?
This book discusses the IT systems at the IRS and VA and shows the kind of push back you can expect from entrenched players.
What's funny is the retirement benefits won't apply to most 2-year term employees. Unless they were prior military or civil service, or come back later, two years is not long enough to keep the TSP match (three year vesting period) or to qualify for the pension (five years). (EDIT: Funny because they explicitly list it as a benefit, but these folks won't qualify for it.)
The biggest red flag on engineering resumes is never sticking at something for more than 2 years. Your bad decisions never catch up to you.
Is the only difference that the current government can claim they started this (completely ignoring they dismantled the previous programs)?
> We're looking for expertise in software engineering, artificial intelligence, cybersecurity, data analytics, or technical project management. Strong problem-solving abilities and a passion for public service are essential.
Design is separate but equal.
This constant competition between parts of the government actually led to tremendous waste. You can see it again in the Soviet space program during the 1960's. While NASA had a single purpose of getting to the moon before 1971 with a unified organization under the control of a single leader, after Khrushchev was deposed (and Korolev died) the Soviet space program splintered into a war between the old OKB-1 (Korolev's group) and Chelomei's OKB-52 that lasted for twenty years over Super-Proton vs Energia etc.
1: The Wehrmacht and the Waffen-SS are the two most famous, but the Luftwaffe recruited, trained and equipped the Fallschirm-Panzer Korps and Fallshchirmjaeger- yes, German paratroops worked for Goering not the Wehrmacht. There were also five Marine Infantry Divisions under the Navy- they had half as many Marine Divisions as the US did, despite many fewer amphibious assaults! And the Volksturm, at the end of the war when things looked grim for Nazi Germany, was under NSDAP party control but separate from the Waffen-SS.
Yeah, this is nothing more than grandstanding idealism. Their staff will no doubtably be as dumb as Space Force or Air Force when it comes to cloud and technology. I've dealt with them in various forms throughout the years contracting. BESPIN was entirely contractor driven. Their devops pipelines and how to deploy things. If that's your indicator, good luck.
> How is Tech Force related to other government technology programs, including ones at GSA or the United States DOGE Service?
> While Tech Force will coordinate across all of government, it is distinct from other technology initiatives within government, including the United States DOGE Service and programs managed by GSA. These programs differ in their mandates, structure, required skillsets, and ability to convert to the competitive service.
Any questions?
Well, they're different. That's how.
> The initial roster of private sector partners includes Adobe, Amazon Web Services, AMD, Anduril, Apple, Box, C3.ai, Coinbase, Databricks, Dell Technologies, Docusign, Google Public Sector, IBM, Meta, Microsoft, Nvidia, OpenAI, Oracle, Palantir, Salesforce, SAP, ServiceNow, Snowflake, Robinhood, Uber, Workday, xAI, and Zoom. This list will expand over time.
Ever wanted to get involved in government-sanctioned espionage technology? This seems like an recruitment effort for that. Applicants beware. Remember that in just 3 years this will stop helping you to get hired, and will probably look like a blemish on your CV when you eventually need to get a new job.
Or something one might want to say if they want to still have plausible deniability about not having been there, yet still want to say something. Who knows.
The main myth though is that somehow there is this idea that someone working as a booze allen contractor for the NSA or CIA is going to now be blackballed by everyone out of disgust. Most people will see it as good, and most companies just want talent and dont actually care about what areas people are in.
Belittling. Excellent way to get your point across.
> They actively recruit on elite engineering campuses over it. It is super fucking interesting work and candidates compete for the opportunity to do it.
This seems like it should be an easy thing to verify with some sort of reference. This is exactly what the parent comment is suggesting and you still flippantly are avoiding it as "trust me bro". I actually believe you, so why don't you share some evidence then?
So the plan is to also make some of them federal employees, ostensibly helping to oversee those contracts? Seems like a conflict of interest...
The worst part about this entire political is that Dems are most likely gonna win, and everyone will just move on.
Im really hoping that Trump lives long enough to actually stage a coup and tank the US economy so hard that things like working for this or DOGE actually do start to matter.
Not necessarily, especially in the private sector. It's hard to justify not hiring an excellent employee because he or she worked for a company you don't like. Especially if the hiring panel is composed by >1 person.
Edit: this seems like the usds with private sector participation. I know “doge” is basically just usds.
Elite of the elite needs no sans-serif fallback font.
Just when I thought this was on brand to the new "anti-woke" font style guide.
I know I wouldn't want to work for or with someone or some company so close-minded as to use this sort of thing as some sort of candidate filter.
Republicans love playing shell games while they rob taxpayers blind.
Yeah, that's going to be a hard pass from me
[1]: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/doge-doesnt-exist-with-eigh...
> No, USDS became DOGE
To me these statements are not contradictory
Also: the "United States DOGE Service"? Really?
It wasn't a large group, and they weren't really responsible for much so they never got much attention. They would just try and fix a few specific pain points at a time. I only knew about it because one of the best PM's I ever worked for did a stint exactly like it was supposed to work- she joined the USDS, worked for the American people for a few years, then left and went back to industry.
And then on January 21st, 2025, his first full day in office, Trump renamed the USDS to the United States DOGE Service, because USDS had money to pay salaries and since it was part of the EotP he could easily hire new people without civil service restrictions. So he could bring in new people (Big Balls etc.) easily enough. By February, essentially everyone who had been in the USDS on the last day of Biden's term were either laid off or resigned. And since then the USDS has been entirely DOGEified.
Where are you from?
Gotta bust that nut.
*Department of War
Not odd at all. That's what it's called now. Complete with new URL:
https://www.war.gov