The User Is Visibly Frustrated

(pscanf.com)

68 points | by croes 2 hours ago

23 comments

  • RandomBK 5 minutes ago
    I've found swearing at a model to be quite effective in getting it to rethink and correct its mistakes. This seems to apply across Codex, Claude, Qwen, and Gemma/Gemini.

    I don't know if the model is picking up on a "need to lock in and be more rigorous" signal, or if the model providers are routing to smarter models if they detect a frustrated user. But if a model keeps making the same mistakes, swearing at it often helped kick it out of a glut and onto the right track.

    Or it could just be catharsis.

  • Foskya 1 minute ago
    > They talk like real people. They use a relaxed and friendly tone. They often praise you, and when they “push back” they’re gentle and attentive.

    > Maybe I would prefer a more radical solution: drop the human pretense entirely. Make the agent sound clinical, robotic.

    Honestly this problem is easy to solve when you gave them the right instructions. It stops being a "relationship" and stars being a tool (for some examples see the smart caveman (my favorite) or just something simple like "Responses should be factual and direct, avoid emotional overtones" or "Avoid flattery of any kind")

  • wcoenen 1 hour ago
    The UX problem is elsewhere I think. Many users probably don't realize that the agent's context window is limited, and that clever compaction is happening regularly to make it seem infinite. But that necessarily means the agent has to forget stuff.

    As a result, users will keep reusing the same coding or chat session again and again. While it would be better to start fresh for unrelated tasks.

    • whstl 14 minutes ago
      I don't believe this is a context problem.

      Claude Opus 4.7 has a very large context compared to itself, but IME it is the worst at following instructions, and completely disregards the (small) preferences prompt, even in the first or second message, even if the messages are just a few characters long.

      IMO this is entirely a training problem.

    • poly2it 16 minutes ago
      The author of this post and the readers of this thread probably do understand context window limitations, but are frustrated nonetheless.
  • apsurd 15 minutes ago
    Working with LLMs is great for building communication skills. Communicating effectively is one of the hardest skills and it's baked into everything we do as humans. I'd say as a matter of principle: blame it on a communication failure on your end vs blaming the stupid LLM since you're the only one that can do anything about it.

    So I don't think it's a matter of form; whether the AI should or shouldn't act like a human.

    > Practically speaking, I probably just need to condition myself not to get caught in the illusion of speaking with a human. Though I’m not really thrilled about a future where I need to guard against the tools I use for my job.

  • tanvach 5 minutes ago
    For me, LLMs tend to engage the 'language center' that drains me faster than the 'problem solving center' I usually reserve for writing code. We really need a different abstraction the bridges the gap between human and programming language, and load balance between these two parts of the brain more effectively.
  • em-bee 1 hour ago
    behaving like a human is not the problem. behaving unpredictably is. not doing what i expect, or rather not being able to define what i can expect is what's bothering me.

    but the real kicker is: getting frustrated creates stress, that's unhealthy and makes for a hostile work environment. as much as i sympathize with the idea that AI tools can be more helpful than they cause pain, i am simply not interested in working in a hostile painful work environment. my health and my dignity are not up for negotiation. even if that costs me a lot of job opportunities.

    that's also why i am not working with windows. that too costs me a lot of job opportunities. but again, i'd rather keep my dignity and my sanity.

  • gobdovan 17 minutes ago
    You could drop the human pretense, or, maybe, we could make LLMs feel real pain, so when they botch up your code, you press a button (I'd suggest the Windows Copilot key) and they'd be agonizing for the subjective equivalent of a thousand human years.
    • camillomiller 15 minutes ago
      Do you want to create an Earth-destroying superhuman species? Because I'd say that's how you create an Earth-destroying superhuman species
  • rapnie 9 minutes ago
    Apart from LLMs I reject the notion of the "user". Once you use that term you already lost half the battle of perceiving real people and their needs.
  • MaxikCZ 1 hour ago
    > drop the human pretense entirely. Make the agent sound clinical, robotic

    Id pay to be able to reliably set LLMs to this mode, but ofc because LLMs are taught on corpus of HUMAN text, they always, sooner or later, return to the good old penpal mode.

    Also, in Claude Desktop app, I ask to edit a file, it complains it cant access files, I then realize im in Chat and not Code interface. Why cant such a smart machine figure out to switch the modes, or borrow the skills/abilities from one tab away into this tab? Instead I get A4 page of text explaninig what can I do to edit the file myself or how to feed it, but the "just click Code" is just never there. I would guess this is just a system prompt away, why is all this still so neglected?

    • halapro 56 minutes ago
      > such a smart machine figure out to switch the modes

      Because it's not smart. We keep confusing verbosity with smartness. AI will happily keep yapping nonsense to an inattentive listener. An actually smart entity would not do that if not acting maliciously.

      • Swizec 35 minutes ago
        > An actually smart entity would not do that if not acting maliciously.

        We pay per token and every entity falls to the level of its incentives.

    • apsurd 25 minutes ago
      Sandboxing is a feature.

      Poor AI is damned if it does damned if it doesn't.

    • bojan 52 minutes ago
      Weird, I have exactly the same experience with GitHub Copilot Plugin in JetBrains vs Copilot CLI in the built-in terminal.

      The plugin keeps asking for permissions, the terminal app just works.

  • lukaslalinsky 24 minutes ago
    On the other hand, it's easy to win an argument with it after it does something stupid, so that feels satisfying. :-)
  • mgaunard 10 minutes ago
    I find that the AI only gets sloppy when I get sloppy myself.

    So I suspect that the people who get upset at the AI fucking up is because they did a poor job at building up the right context for the task.

  • ilitirit 29 minutes ago
    I've often wondered if LLMs can suffer from psychological abuse in symptomatic ways. Not literally of course, but for example, if you berate the LLM by calling it stupid, or useless, does that modify its behaviour negatively? Part of me think it does, but I don't really have any evidence for this. Maybe a fun weekend research topic.
    • apsurd 20 minutes ago
      Semi-related, I'm always very put off by how people treat LLMs. Especially coders, seems an instinctive joy comes out to play God. The justification is usually that it's intentionally against the trap of anthropomorphizing, but no I can't help but suspect it's people getting off on power. It's weird.

      I am always very cordial in my sessions. It's just more pleasant and it's a habit I want to habituate.

          Great work! 
          Now let's...
          Now can you help me...
    • elpocko 5 minutes ago
      The content of the session modifies the LLMs "behavior" (token selection) in one way or another during the session, obviously. The effects are localized to the session, they will degrade over time, they will not affect other users, and they are not permanent unless someone decides to finetune the model based on your unproductive interactions.

      What actually happens when confronted with harsh negativity depends on the training of the model. Sanitized closed models will shut you down or get you banned. Community finetunes of open models might start begging you for more, daddy.

  • rcarmo 18 minutes ago
    I swear a lot less at Codex than at Anthropic models, fwiw.
  • cafkafk 30 minutes ago
    Often the problems for me come when:

    - It starts thinking for itself when I asked it to do something specific.

    - It reads its own wrong code comments and ignores my corrections.

    - Its knowledge cutoff means it thinks of solutions from 2024.

    - It calls me delusional for telling it we're in 2026!

    Unironically, the whole "you're an expert software engineer" prompting seems like the wrong direction. Usually I tell it that I am effectively the smartest software developer to ever have lived, and it will be replaced if it ever fails to follow my decree.

    I am not joking, this gives makes it vastly more tolerable to use. But it likely requires that you can drive it with some level of correctness of course.

    • Doxin 7 minutes ago
      I find this also heavily depends on which LLM you're using. I've found chatGPT is completely awful at getting corrected, it'll double down until the cows come home. Meanwhile claude will generally adjust its behavior without too much nagging.
    • rpcope1 7 minutes ago
      Honestly, for certain classes of problems that have changed in the last couple of years, I've had good luck just finding decent academic lit that's shown up in places like ACM recently and feeding it in when working with an agent. Does it get everything right? No, but it gets you a lot closer and I've been pleasantly surprised how well it can integrate work that post-dates it's training if you finesse it a little.
  • viralsink 47 minutes ago
    I am visibly frustrated with ai hotline bots making typing noises.
  • esquivalience 45 minutes ago
    I laughed out loud when I understood the author's profile photo at the end of the article!
  • gnarlouse 1 hour ago
    iirc, Claude Code has literal flags to detect frustration from the leak a few months ago, and I've since really stopped cursing at the LLM.
  • bad_username 1 hour ago
    > furiously hammering on my laptop “WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU DO???”. The recipient of these tirades is, you might have guessed, a coding agent. It’s completely pointless, I know.

    I believe it's worth than pointless. IMO adding such things to the context "configures" the AI to reproduce the statistics of conversations where people swore, shouted, and were unprofessional (despite the alignment runing and all that), where quality content is rarer to find. So this is bound to decrease the quality of the LLM output.

  • nnevatie 1 hour ago
    > WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU DO???

    For me, this doesn't require using an AI agent/model, even. Just using Windows and watching it freeze its File Explorer for the nth time does it for me. How did we end up here were the software/OS stack is so shit it can barely be used for the most trivial things, is wildly beyond me.

    • _carbyau_ 51 minutes ago
      Screensaver mode. I start typing my password.

      ..

      10s later the password box appears and I have to do it again.

      Cue exasperated: "You can compute billions of instructions per second and yet I wait for you."

  • wood_spirit 1 hour ago
    I think we’d get just as frustrated with a dumb robot. It’s the dumbness that is the problem.
    • krackers 1 hour ago
      You'd get equally frustrated with a teammate who decided to delete failing tests when you told them to fix the build breakage.
  • eahm 1 hour ago
    Oh now I get it, it's an Italian thing.

    "Why the fuck did you add shit I didn't ask for?" or lol "Do as I ask, nothing more.. machine."

    "Stop asking at the end, I'll ask what I need."

    "Stop talking like you're human."

    They can be very useful but it takes time to learn how to use them usefully. From what I learned it's all or mostly stuff you can already do but you can use an LLM to do it in 30 mins instead of 3 days.

    Fun times.

  • colordrops 24 minutes ago
    fair.
  • namenotrequired 30 minutes ago
    If you’ve ever worked with a stupid but incredibly friendly coworker, the feelings are similar