8 comments

  • ordu 1 minute ago
    Can't they just get things out of the module and paint it fresh? Maybe with some special paint, or with several layers of a paint?

    Obviously they can't, it looks like an obvious solution they couldn't have missed. But I wonder why it is impossible to do.

  • gwbas1c 46 minutes ago
    Maybe someone who knows more about the ISS than I do can answer this:

    Naively, I would assume that there are airlocks between the different sections of the ISS. I would also assume that they would close these airlocks while doing the kind of work they are doing to repair the leaks.

    So, assuming I'm right (and my assumptions might be wrong,) why do the astronauts need to shelter?

    • ianburrell 26 minutes ago
      There aren’t even doors between sections. Airlocks are serious things, there is one or two for station for EVA. There are multiple hatches for docking spacecraft.

      One of the innovations of ISS is larger docking adapter with bulkhead that is removed after docking. Russian section still uses hatches. All of the cables go through the docking adapter or hatch which makes impossible to close door or quickly disconnect.

    • bmelton 42 minutes ago
      Well, I won't claim to know the answer, but "please do not move between different airlocked sections while this work is underway" sounds a lot like the definition of "shelter" to me
      • gpm 23 minutes ago
        In this case, per the article, "shelter" meant "shelter in a capsule capable of returning to earth and put on the spacesuits that you wear during return to earth".

        I.e. leaving the actual ISS structure entirely.

        • bmelton 18 minutes ago
          I would guess they're worried about breaking something, but thanks for the clarification (and apologies for not having RTFA)
    • MrPouig 34 minutes ago
      If things go wrong, they're already in the véhicule supposed to bring them back. It might be upsetting to be 3 locked doors away from your best way to come back home
      • bArray 18 minutes ago
        This is the right answer - if it goes wrong they are already placed in the escape vehicle, sitting in their space suits.
    • Polizeiposaune 28 minutes ago
      There are normally-open air-tight hatches between modules. Various utility connections and air ducts are normally run through the open hatches so it would take a bit of work to disconnect these connections before they could be closed.

      Not exactly something you want to be doing under time pressure.

      • basch 27 minutes ago
        What’s the reason against separate conduit for utilities?
        • Zigurd 21 minutes ago
          If such a conduit would connect two sections that the hatch is meant to isolate, you would have to make the conduit and everything running through it airtight, even under a catastrophic loss of air. If the conduit didn't seal as well as the hatch, which is meant to withstand hard vacuum on the other side of it, it would defeat the purpose of the hatch.
        • nkrisc 23 minutes ago
          Those would need to be connected during docking and sealed separately anyway if you wanted to seal the hatch. More failure points.
        • NegativeLatency 24 minutes ago
          Just a guess: Harder to build and operate with more failure modes and less opportunity for intervention.
        • gpm 22 minutes ago
          You'd still need to pull out the utilities and close a now second hatch in the conduit to seal the thing. What would be the point?
    • ocdtrekkie 41 minutes ago
      I think the service module is both structurally and functionally critical. If it is failing and you do not know why, catastrophic failure is presumably possible, not just some air loss. A hole or crack in the module is now apparently double the size it was until recently, that is a trend that presumably could continue to rapid unscheduled disassembly.
    • himata4113 39 minutes ago
      Compression loss can lead to a decompression of sorts if I had to guess... it is a vaccum out there. The force from a decompression can yield a chain reaction or strongly disrupt the entire station.
    • root-parent 19 minutes ago
      [dead]
    • throw2ih020 37 minutes ago
      [dead]
  • SoftTalker 52 minutes ago
    Imagine something like this happening halfway to Mars and zero chance of escaping, getting any help or parts sent to you.
    • nuclearsugar 2 minutes ago
      A bit of a tangent, but the fictional book "Children of Time" takes this to wild extremes. Really fun read
    • Quitschquat 47 minutes ago
      Recently started an embedded hardware/software job. Shipping firmware to the manufacturer feels like that for the device classes that have no internet.
      • LPisGood 38 minutes ago
        Anything special you noticed about the deployment processes involved with that versus more typical software engineering work?
      • NegativeLatency 21 minutes ago
        I can’t quite imagine, even shipping on prem stuff is much harder than the cloud. Especially when people can mess with stuff
    • extraduder_ire 35 minutes ago
      The Zvezda module has been in orbit since July 2000.

      I don't think any crewed interplanetary mission is going to last that long for the foreseeable future.

    • sizzzzlerz 31 minutes ago
      Sort of like what happened on the Apollo 13 mission in 1970. Engineers on the ground were able to devise a makeshift fix to adapt the control module airscrubber filters to fit the lunar module so the astronauts could shelter in the LM for several days before getting back into the CM and coming home.
      • SoftTalker 26 minutes ago
        Yeah I was thinking about that, the big difference being that you are months out instead of hours/days, if a return to Earth is even possible.
    • willy_k 49 minutes ago
      There is less debris around on the way to mars and this is a known and worsening for the ISS due to its age.
      • threwrfaway 40 minutes ago
        A top (arguably, the top) metallurgist who studied previous failed parts told me it's corrosion of the Russian alloy used.

        Corrosion is a hard problem in living quarters (ie moisture and salt) in space (sealed with no gravity)

        • Zigurd 15 minutes ago
          In microgravity, everything gets everywhere. My mother worked on NASA funded research for diagnostic spit tests to determine chronic versus acute stress, which previously required blood draws, which are a less than optimal choice in space. It's all very stressful.
        • SlightlyLeftPad 20 minutes ago
          I was wondering about this as well. In theory, there are also some metals and compounds that react with each other with just simple contact which result in some kind of amalgamation which can result in disastrous structural loss. Veratassium recently did a video on this kind of effect[1]. Could this be happening here?

          [1]: https://youtu.be/ksn5yrsC3Wg

      • ShinyLeftPad 46 minutes ago
        Debris from what? Satellite debris get in that orbit?
        • pixl97 32 minutes ago
          Most of the things that will be a common danger (that is too small to track) are tiny pieces of stuff. Think paint chips and sand grain sized objects. These can be from things that came off rockets and ships, and things we've left behind like experiments and satellites. When these tiny things intercept you at many kilometers per second it can be dramatic.

          Anything larger, say a lost screw driver, would punch thru the ISS like it wasn't even there leading to some ugly consequences.

        • wat10000 30 minutes ago
          Bits of spacecraft falling off (Challenger's windshield was famously cracked by a paint chip), debris from satellite collisions, even anti-satellite weapons tests.
        • vel0city 33 minutes ago
          Debris from space. Lots of rocks are constantly falling from space from all over. Sometimes they're big and make pretty lights in the sky as they fall, often they are practically invisible.
    • sigmoid10 48 minutes ago
      Seems like these structural integrity problems are always inside the Russian section. So if you're on a Russian mission to Mars, yes it would be reasonable to be worried. Otherwise this seems like a non-issue.
      • tedivm 43 minutes ago
        This is just not true. There have been leaks due to micrometers in just about every section of the ship at one point or another. A quick search pulls up examples of US modules having issues, especially around interfaces and seals. NASA had a whole investigation between 2018 and 2021 about the recurring issue.
        • sigmoid10 36 minutes ago
          This is just wrong. All serious issues that turned out to be safety concerns were in Russian modules. The 2018 leak you refer to here was in a Soyuz capsule and the 2021 leaks were in the Zvezda module (same place they are this time). In between there were also minor leaks in the Zvezda connection tunnel.
          • threwrfaway 29 minutes ago
            If you count the Soyuz leak, then the Boeing counts too! That was far more serious than anything you listed.

            Two astronauts stranded for nine months taking the ISIS supplies intended for others. This is after they safely docked, which was considered risky at the time.

            • sigmoid10 24 minutes ago
              You brought it up. I have been talking about structural issues with long term core modules. And that is clearly a Russian issue.
        • pantalaimon 28 minutes ago
          Maybe we can use the goop from those self sealing bike tires to have self sealing space station modules
      • threwrfaway 33 minutes ago
        Unless your spacecraft is built by Boeing.

        We had two astronauts stranded in space for the better part of a year just last year!

      • ofjcihen 46 minutes ago
        Ah yes, the well traveled and highly tested human mission to Mars.
        • sigmoid10 42 minutes ago
          The 10 non-Russian modules have been in vacuum for a quarter century and have done just fine despite facing more debris than in interplanetary space. So yes, this aspect is well tested. This stuff is literally part of the reason why the ISS exists in the first place.
          • threwrfaway 35 minutes ago
            The hubris of forgetfulness; to think that until Elon showed up the West couldn't even put a person in space anymore.

            The Soyuz, the MIR, the human space records, the Venera program, closed cycle rockets, all have no equivalent in the West. Even their version of the shuttle was superior (it flew 100% autonomously).

            I don't like Musk, but he single handedly saved the Western space programs.

            • bobim 18 minutes ago
              I didn't realize Buran flew, and flew autonomously. Impressive for the times.
            • sigmoid10 26 minutes ago
              This sense of national pride based on long past achievements will always be bewildering to me. Do you really think a country that is actively engaged in a full scale open land war and whose economy is in shambles is able to maintain (much less build) a venerable space program? Elon might have saved the American tax payer from the senate launch system jobs program, but the majority of the global space industry is and always has been in the west. Russia has been an afterthought since the collapse of the Soviet Union. And it shows in everything they have done in space since.
    • rayiner 39 minutes ago
      Then you die and go into the history books.
    • 866-RON-0-FEZ 32 minutes ago
      They're not flying to Mars in a 30 year old Russian rust bucket so
  • cucumber3732842 1 hour ago
    Super thin margin stuff like space flight only "works" because they cross their Ts and dot their Is. There's probably no danger here, the repairs will probably go fine and be uneventful, but you gotta treat every situation like it's the real deal because otherwise it'll get you when it does happen.
    • ggm 1 hour ago
      Agree to precautionary principle. Disagree to certainty of fixing because this is a long standing leak which just doubled in intensity: either it got bigger, or there are more. Either way, we have no reason to be optimistic a bigger leak problem has a faster MTTR or even triage.
  • 866-RON-0-FEZ 1 hour ago
    • jader201 55 minutes ago
      Probably better to link to the article, rather than a thread that has 0 comments.

      https://www.reuters.com/world/nasa-live-international-space-...

      • Polizeiposaune 35 minutes ago
        "The air leaks escalated on Friday from a pound of air per day to two pounds, according to a senior NASA official who asked not to be named.

        Russian cosmonauts Sergey Kud-Sverchkov and Sergei Mikayev were using a saw to break into an area where they believed they could access the crack leaking air, the NASA official said.

        NASA officials disagreed with this method, the NASA official added, prompting mission control in Houston to order safe-haven procedures."

      • 866-RON-0-FEZ 30 minutes ago
        Why would I steal a link from someone who submitted a story first and take credit? I know it's normal behavior in tech to stab everyone in the back but...
  • Markoff 1 hour ago
    it was already cancelled and they can return back to normal operations
    • ggm 1 hour ago
      ... for now. Problem still being worked.
  • jmount 1 hour ago
    I have to say worrying about the provenance of writing has made me a grumpier reader.

    For example: "The space station is made up of Russian and US segments, and there are modules from the European and Japanese space agencies too." It feels like this sentence is inserting some points, but is lacking in authorial intent. Is the intent to say the station is largely Russian and US, or to say the station has more than two partners? Probably an okay sentence, but still feels like a stone in the shoe.

    • ShinyLeftPad 1 hour ago
      Seeing nothing wrong with it. If journalist follows inverted pyramid, it starts with crucial facts and at the end it can be mostly supplementary information. Seeing this is about "International Space Station", this adds context to why it is called "international" for an ordinary person.
    • kylecazar 1 hour ago
      Yeah, this is their "live reporting" feed, where updates and context get posted about an in-progress event.

      I don't think you'll find that type of language in the more traditionally published/edited articles.

    • Polizeiposaune 40 minutes ago
      It's complicated. The US Orbital Segment of the ISS consists of modules funded by and built in the US, ESA, and Japan.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Orbital_Segment

      Several of the US modules were built in Europe by Thales Alenia Space and were transferred to the US in exchange for the US launching the European modules on the Space Shuttle.

    • summa_tech 36 minutes ago
      I think it's an attempt to express that the station consists of only two segments: Russian (ROS) and US (USOS), but the US invited its allies to work together on its segment. So parts of the USOS are made in Europe, Canada and Japan, and generally lifted to space by the US, usually on the Space Shuttle.

      (All this was pretty lucid of the US, but obviously the Russians did no such thing on their side. The Japanese even managed to get an ISS resupply mission launched on their own vehicle, which is no small achievement, and the ESA did a bunch of good science. And what would space be without the Canadarm :-)

  • kaicianflone 36 minutes ago
    I don’t have a dog in the fight but it’s super scary to think about for the astronauts and their families. This issue’s been going on for a while now. Surprised that there’s not more AI or robotics that could be utilized for such cases.

    Rumors are that Elon gets spaceX to buy tesla so tele-operated Optimus robots do the hard space work from now on. Not a bad idea per se but I’m not educated on the topic. Curiosity has me asking if we really want humans to go to mars or in space at all.