Show HN: Physically accurate black hole you can put in your room

(blackhole.plav.in)

136 points | by aplavin 3 days ago

12 comments

  • nomilk 0 minutes ago
    From a certain angle it looks like an eyeball https://imgur.com/a/Dam3XT0
  • dluan 1 hour ago
    I remember like 10 years ago when Occulus first came out there was that space simulation demo where you could go around the solar system in VR. You could also "fast travel" by zooming in towards a planet, moon, blackhole.

    Yeah, that was the day I learned I have a deep, crippling phobia of large objects. And Melanoheliophobia, which is fear of black holes. The only other time I've felt that way was snorkeling once near a giant 3 story tall bait ball of swirling fish, which was so disorienting and panic inducing that I vomited.

    • BLKNSLVR 53 minutes ago
      I did a 'swim with sharks' thing at Sea World (or whatever the Queensland equivalent is) with a few human-safe species of sharks, a few rays, and a selection of other fish. One of the other fish was, as far as I recall, some kind of giant grouper which, as far as my memory tells me, was huge, unmoving, and had it's mouth open the whole time, and it's mouth hole would have been big enough to put my entire head inside (this is according to my memory anyway).

      I was nervous beforehand, but once I was in (and had accepted the inevitability of my own death) it was surprisingly calm / calming floating around and having these frickin' aquatic alien species just going about their dailies around me. I went close to the massive grouper just to get the scale right (not that I can really remember, it was 26 years ago). I even looked through the perspex so I could see the non-human-safe sharks in the tank next door.

      After the (awesome) experience, I went and looked at the grouper from the outside (one of those underground big perspex viewing rooms) and I was back to being awed / scared by its size, and somewhat refusing to believe that I'd been in there with it. The memory of it is scarier to me than what I remember feeling when actually doing it. It's weird.

      • ViscountPenguin 11 minutes ago
        It's Sea World in Queensland, but confusingly I think the company is unrelated to the American Sea World, iirc they bought a license to the name back when it was probably a lot more positive than it is now.

        EDIT: Apparently not licensed, just completely unrelated.

    • chamomeal 1 hour ago
      If somebody feels no fear while zooming towards a black hole, their brain has some strange wires crossed.

      Strongly recommend Outer Wilds. Falling into the black hole the first time was one of my most scared moments in gaming. I was totally panicking lol

      • aplavin 53 minutes ago
        Looks interesting from the first glance! I should probably try that game – having both the artistic and realistic pictures in mind :)
    • aplavin 50 minutes ago
      Thanks for sharing – as someone who studies black hole environments daily, I didn't even think of such a phobia existing!

      I wonder if some tricks, adjustments are feasible, to minimize the effects of these phobias? I see these visualizations as a pathway to make understanding such a complicated, unintuitive object more accessible – and would be great to make it even more accessible, if it makes sense... Happy to chat more, brainstorm some solutions.

    • GavinMcG 29 minutes ago
      > Melanoheliophobia

      Tangential, but this being a nearly word-for-word translation of “black hole fear” made me realize how odd it is that we insist on latinizing these things.

    • efilife 1 hour ago
      Same. Especially with circular objects. Placing the black hole in my room using the AR mode was very distressing for me
  • Waterluvian 2 hours ago
    It’s fascinating how things that were inverted seem to become corrected when I point this at the pre-existing black hole in my room.
  • aizk 2 hours ago
    Very cool, and very mind bending. Very faithful to the Event Horizon Telescope rendering. A decade ago I got really into black holes for like a few months, and I read Kip Thorne's book called "The Science of Interstellar", talking all about black hole simulations. Have you read it? I wonder how the simulation tech has evolved, as 10 years is a lot. I do wonder if you do like, size estimates of a black hole in my room. Suppose I have a black hole in my room, I'd be curious to know what the mass of that is, like a fun fact, tidbit somewhere.
    • aplavin 36 minutes ago
      The technology has come a long way indeed! The first simulations of how a black hole would look like are from 1979, by Jean-Pierre Luminet – take some time to find and look at them, it's super impressive what they achieved using that era tech! Now, we can get much higher-resolution ones in real time on any smartphone.

      I work in the Event Horizon Telescope, studying jets accelerated by black holes, and immediate black hole surroundings as well. I do ray tracing / radiative transfer simulations, and this app is an adaptation of those simulations – with the primary focus on being physically accurate under reasonable assumptions.

      And totally, I enjoyed listening to Kip Thorne's lectures and talking to him, he gives them in a very approachable style while remaining honest!

  • csmoak 1 hour ago
    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels like the leading edge of the accretion disk (coming towards the viewer) should be significantly brighter than it is shown here, and the trailing edge (going away from) should be significantly dimmer?

    Or could the brightness shown be a result of it being Kerr vs Schwarzschild?

    • aplavin 44 minutes ago
      One side of the accretion disk is indeed brighter than the other – in the default view in the app, the bottom part is brighter. The effect appears quite clearly visible to me, although the exact contrast depends on the colorscale mapping. Here, I tried to find a colorscale that works well for both the disk and the jet, which naturally means the leading/trailing edge contrast can be less than in the linear mapping. Hope it explains the visual effect!

      Kerr vs Schwarzschild (static vs rotating black holes) is a much smaller effect visually – that's why it is so hard for us to measure black hole spins (= how fast they are rotating) observationally, even with the Event Horizon Telescope.

      • csmoak 35 minutes ago
        I think the contrast between the two sides is typically greater with an optically thick disk, and it looks like you are rendering an optically thin disk. I think that's the main difference from what I was expecting when I saw it.

        Very cool demo! Thanks for sharing!

        (For reference, my experience rendering black holes is recreating Luminet's rendering from the late 70s: https://www.ioccc.org/2025/cesmoak/index.html )

        • aplavin 21 minutes ago
          True, the disk is rendered optically (and geometrically) thin. This is done so that real-time performance is attained on devices like phones – volumetric GR rendering would be significantly more expensive. The jet (zoom out to see it) is rendered with full volumetric effects, because it's just special relativity there.

          Fortran punchcard style to render black holes?! That's really going full circle to the origins, I really enjoyed reading about Luminet's work some time ago.

          • csmoak 9 minutes ago
            Oh nice, I had not zoomed out enough. I don't think I've seen the relativistic jets rendered before. The AR mode looks great on my phone.

            Yep, I had fun learning a lot about punchcards, Fortran, and the math behind black holes. I suspect I'm doing something similar to you in my Fortran implementation, raymarching along the null geodesic to come up with my final image: https://imgur.com/a/czysDls

            Also, I have to point out the "going full circle" pun, intended or not.

            • aplavin 0 minutes ago
              Actually, the jet was the first part of the app – I wanted to just see and "feel" relativistic beaming in practice, in physical space. And it was fun and instructive indeed! Really puts into perspective how tight is the jet vs line-of-sight alignment for those bright jets we see across the universe. And how beaming is the dominant effect that determines the jet/quasar appearance.
  • 20k 20 minutes ago
    If anyone's interested in the accuracy, this is very 'visualisation grade' software. Its a bit of a pet peeve of mine that people present these sims as being very physically accurate, when they contain major inaccuracies, some of which are very obvious and/or deliberate. This one has some serious physical limitations

    I wouldn't mind at all if it didn't say that this was a *physically accurate* black hole specifically, but this now falls under misleading science communication in a way that often gets hand waved away as if it doesn't matter, so we've got to clear some things up!

    1. The accretion disk shouldn't be red, people just expect it because it looks cool. Black hole accretion disks are near universally hot enough to be blue. Interstellar did this too, and tried to handwave it away very unconvincingly

    2. This is a non/low (?) spin black hole, which isn't super duper realistic

    3. It ignores the position of the camera (which affects the lorentz shifting)

    4. The doppler shifting isn't terribly accurate

    5. It doesn't model the accretion disk temperature distribution or colour with any kind of accuracy. Usually you model accretion disks as a blackbody radiator, shift it by the doppler, and to display this convolve this against the human eye response (LMS), go to XYZ, then RGB, do a physical tonemapping step, before an sRGB conversion. This instead does none of that - no step of this is done with any physical accuracy. Its not even illustratively correct as we'll get into

    6. The actual radiative transfer is very simplified compared to what you'd use for realsies, and isn't based on any real numbers, with very simplified equations. The opacity and emissivity of the disk is arbitrary, as is the size, and it does not correctly incorporate brightness or extinction, eg here https://github.com/aplavin/blackhole.plav.in/blob/2f004bfeca... is super simplified

    7. The wrong equation is used for the doppler calculation. They use the I^3 variant, whereas the data you get out of a disk sample is *radiant flux* which is actually F_obs = F_emit / (z+1)^4. This is a very common mistake in image processing, which means that the doppler shift and observer brightness isn't correct. Surface brightness over here https://github.com/aplavin/blackhole.plav.in/blob/2f004bfeca... is *not* a spectral radiance but instead a radiant flux

    Stuff like the brightness -> colouring conversion is particularly inaccurate. Eg if you check out the source:

    https://github.com/aplavin/blackhole.plav.in/blob/2f004bfeca...

    It maps the pseudo brightness completely arbitrarily to colour. The resulting colour/brightness here then doesn't correspond to anything remotely physical. It also performs a *linear* mapping of a linear quantity (brightness) to sRGB (which is a nonlinear process!!), which means that it doesn't even retain any of the underlying physical characteristics of the brightness simulation, which itself is quite inaccurate. Its vibes all the way down

    This is all fine if you're doing visualisation, but this isn't an accurate simulation. I wish this was just called a visualisation of a black hole, but its being communicated as if this is super hard science with credentials and all

    • aplavin 5 minutes ago
      Some are fair – of course this is a simplified visualization! Observationally, we don't really know how fast a given black hole is rotating, and here I indeed assumed a non-rotating one. It's not an inaccuracy per se, more like a missing feature. The camera mode has a (half-hidden) toggle to enable Kerr metric and set spin, but even there it's not a default.

      I consider the colormap choice to be completely arbitrary though, without affecting accuracy. Basically, it represents intensity at a given frequency, the image like one would get from a telescope. It wasn't intended as a faithful optical color representation! And really, in my (admittedly biased) view of a radio astronomer, I tend to assume frequencies invisible to the human eye anyway.

  • hahahaa 2 hours ago
    First time I have AR'd. That was cool. How does it keep the hole in the same point in space as I walk about?
    • dmd 2 hours ago
      The app doesn't have to do this itself, phones do it for you. ARCore on Android, ARKit on iOS.
      • hahahaa 2 hours ago
        Oh yeah I mean how do the phones do that. I guess it uses dead reckoning with visual cues and some machine learning.
        • aplavin 1 hour ago
          In my experience, on Android, it definitely relies on camera: AR doesn't work in dark room, and barely works in slightly-lit room. So it must be fusing camera + accelerometer + ...
        • forsalebypwner 1 hour ago
          on iPhone 12 Pro Max and later (maybe only on Pros, I forget) they have a LiDAR sensor built in, allowing for impressively accurate 3D scans of objects with a free app like Scaniverse. But yeah I think AR was the intention there
        • dmd 2 hours ago
          "SLAM" is the term to google.
        • boothby 2 hours ago
          Your phone has an accelerometer, which can be integrated twice to result in slightly accurate dead reckoning; just keep accumulating 3-vectors with every time-slice. That's a helluva lot easier than visual cues.
          • addaon 2 hours ago
            "slightly accurate" is the correct description, though -- dead reckoning on a cell-phone-class IMU accumulates drift too quickly to keep objects anchored in space for more than seconds at a time. You need something (visual odometry, SLAM) that provides long-term stability, even if it has short-term noise or poor availability, to fuse in.
            • gregsadetsky 1 hour ago
              When this topic comes up, I'm always happy to share this incredible lecture from many many years ago about sensor fusion and dead reckoning and how you _cannot_ integrate acceleration twice:

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7JQ7Rpwn2k&t=1401s (the whole video is incredible, but this timestamp is the magical bit)

              • pezezin 1 hour ago
                12 years ago I had to write the firmware for an IMU. It took me some real effort to convince my bosses that double integration was, for all practical purposes, impossible. I wish I had known about this video back then...

                IMU are very useful to known your orientation though. Even an inaccurate IMU is useful to provide an initial estimate to feed vision-based algorithms.

  • ninjahawk1 1 hour ago
    Them: you can’t see what’s on the inside of a black hole

    Me: zooms in

  • charcircuit 1 hour ago
    Wouldn't physically accurate turn your entire screen black? I would expect it to suck in way way more light than the example shows.
    • aplavin 57 minutes ago
      Black holes don't really "suck in" light :) Whatever falls onto the black hole itself gets deleted, of course – but otherwise, it bends light rays towards its center. That's why the app shows distortion + black circle in the in middle in the camera mode.
  • api 2 hours ago
    The singularity is near.