19 comments

  • EMIRELADERO 35 minutes ago
    > "These changes resolve Apple’s disagreements with the Commission over business terms and alternative distribution."

    [...]

    > "The Core Technology Fee, a per-install fee for developers that achieve extraordinary scale, will be replaced by the Core Technology Commission, a simple 5 percent commission on digital transactions in apps distributed outside the App Store. The new terms also eliminate the initial acquisition fee and store services fee."

    [...]

    > "In order to keep EU users as safe as possible, Apple will continue to require every alternatively distributed app to go through Notarization — a baseline review focused on basic functionality and protection from serious threats."

    This is bonkers, I can't believe the EU Commission agreed to it. The main issue that the DMA was about still remains: Apple retains ultimate control over app developers' dealings with users.

    The status quo that the EU should have pushed for, and which Article 6(7) of the DMA requires, is one where a developer can distribute iOS apps to users without ever entering into any contractual relationship with Apple. The OS APIs that most apps use are already paid-for by the user when they buy the device. Apple wants to double-dip and charge developers for the value that the users already have by virtue of owning their iDevices with all the necessary iOS paraphernalia in them.

    Of course, Xcode and the SDK overall aren't paid for by users, so Apple can charge devs for it, but so far there's no way to signal to Apple that you have opted out of using their SDK and have the fee waived. Not that it would be enough anyway, since even having to interact with Apple in any capacity to be an iOS dev is the main problem.

    • ben_w 19 minutes ago
      > The OS APIs that most apps use are already paid-for by the user when they buy the device.

      That argument would assume no cost for upgrades.

      I remember having to buy new operating systems.

      That said, looking at the state of recent OS upgrades, I think I'd have been happy if the only changes over the last, oh, decade or so, had been purely security updates. But these too are not free.

      > Apple wants to double-dip and charge developers for the value that the users already have by virtue of owning their iDevices with all the necessary iOS paraphernalia in them.

      Yes, obviously they want to make as much money as possible, and this is at odds with consumer interests.

      That said, I have the impression that for many users, the benefit is the app ecosystem, while for many developers the benefit is the users. Endless marketing cycles of new-shiny-API for one, and new-shiny-UI for the other.

      That said, power-law distribution, so "the app ecosystem" is probably mostly Meta, Google, Amazon, as specific names, then becoming somewhat vague with "whatever work mandated of Slack or MS teams", "their bank", "three or four supermarkets", and "a taxi firm who may or may not be Uber".

      • noja 15 minutes ago
        I'd like to see Windows 2000 as a base taken by Anthropic and beefed up with security stuff.
        • ben_w 5 minutes ago
          I'm kinda tempted to do that to classic MacOS. But only kinda, because copyright and trademarks are things, and I don't want to risk incurring the wrath of any legal team, let alone a trillion dollar corporation's legal team.
    • dannyw 28 minutes ago
      The EU likes the power to delist apps by compelling two companies (Apple and Google) to do so.

      Android is moving to the same, KYC (credit or debit card; no prepaid cards) with play store required for APK distribution

    • gumby271 13 minutes ago
      That feels like a crazy definition of Notarization there Apple.
    • mnewme 21 minutes ago
      Well I think this it at least improvement to the status quo
    • chrisjj 6 minutes ago
      [delayed]
    • tiahura 30 minutes ago
      Maybe one of the commissioners tried Android?
      • EMIRELADERO 28 minutes ago
        The feeling of security and tightness on iOS does not come from its monopolistic restrictions on 3rd-party devs.
    • lapcat 25 minutes ago
      > there's no way to signal to Apple that you have opted out of using their SDK

      How do you not use their SDK?

      • EMIRELADERO 24 minutes ago
        Nowadays with LLMs people could probably patch up some FOSS SDK that perfectly replicates the original's functionality without infringing Apple's copyrights. If the DMA was enforced correctly this would have already happened.
        • lapcat 20 minutes ago
          > Nowadays with LLMs people could probably patch up some FOSS SDK that perfectly replicates the original's functionality without infringing Apple's copyrights.

          I don't intend to insult you, but as an iOS developer myself I have serious doubts about whether you have any expertise in the subject you're talking about here.

          • EMIRELADERO 16 minutes ago
            I didn't mean to imply that this would be a vibe-coded slop project. I'm no LLM evangelizer and hate the hype train as much as any competent dev. The truth is though that LLMs are uniquely suited for work of this kind, and a team that knows what they're doing could make short work of the whole thing much faster.
            • lapcat 12 minutes ago
              > I didn't mean to imply that this would be a vibe-coded slop project.

              That's not really the issue. LLM participation is a red herring. The issue is "replicates the original's functionality".

              • EMIRELADERO 5 minutes ago
                What would be so outlandish about that?
      • realusername 15 minutes ago
        Personnally I use Flutter which has a very minimal use of their SDK.

        Basically enough to render inputs to a gpu accelerated surface.

        And I'd argue that this is a core OS feature that you expect on any modern OS.

  • mjorgers 30 minutes ago
    > The Core Technology Fee, a per-install fee for developers that achieve extraordinary scale, will be replaced by the Core Technology Commission, a simple 5 percent commission on digital transactions in apps distributed outside the App Store. The new terms also eliminate the initial acquisition fee and store services fee.

    [...]

    > In order to keep EU users as safe as possible, Apple will continue to require every alternatively distributed app to go through Notarization — a baseline review focused on basic functionality and protection from serious threats.

    All in all, still extremely anti-consumer. If I can download and run arbitrary code on my Mac--even if I have to jump through scary warnings--why should I not be able to do so on my phone? Why would one computing platform be different from the other?

    • ben_w 9 minutes ago
      > Why would one computing platform be different from the other?

      Because malware breaking the sandbox of one of them can mostly only spy on the owner, while malware breaking the sandbox of the other can spy on whoever the owner walks past, GPS trace their movements…

      Question for those with more industry knowledge than me: If you assume a broken sandbox, is it possible for an app to record phone calls, then use that recording to create a deepfaked voice that can then be transmitted as a new call? My naïve assumption is "yes obviously", but for all I know the hardware has some way to activate a switched circuit from the phone service to the speaker and microphone that can't have other sound data pass through it.

    • skybrian 13 minutes ago
      If you’re a developer you can kind of do it, or so ChatGPT tells me:

      > So for, say, your iPad mini plus 2–5 other iPads, the workable setup is: Mac + Xcode → $99/year developer membership → register each iPad's UDID → create an Ad Hoc build → install that build on those devices. You don't have to publish it, make it discoverable, or have Apple review it.

      That would work for me, except that I prefer to build web apps instead. There’s nothing I really want to build that couldn’t be done as a web app.

      As for why one computing platform would be different than another, if you don’t think there’s any difference then why not use a Raspberry Pi or something?

    • ulfw 15 minutes ago
      The messages on Mac are becoming more ridiculous and cumbersome each upgrade though. Kind of sick of jumping through System Settings hoops every time I upgrade an app
    • cube00 28 minutes ago
      > why should I not be able to do so on my phone? Why would one computing platform be different from the other?

      If Microsoft had its act together PCs would have been just as locked down as phones are today and we wouldn't be questioning a difference.

      • Zak 17 minutes ago
        Microsoft proposed locked-down PCs decades ago and got criticism from sources as mainstream as the New York Times. Everyone more technical than that, with the possible exception of corporate IT types flatly rejected it.

        I'm sad there was so much less backlash to restricting user control on phones.

        https://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/30/business/technology-a-saf...

      • repeekad 18 minutes ago
        I think what you meant to say is if US regulators weren't asleep at the wheel phones would be just as unlocked as PCs.
        • ApolloFortyNine 10 minutes ago
          Well here's EU regulators working with Apple directly to allow it. I honestly think that's worse, the EU government took the time to allow this directly. It's not just a case of the existing laws not being clear in this instance, it's the EU working with Apple to come up with this 'solution'.

          5% tax on all digital transactions (still applies to Kindle ebooks too I'm guessing?) and all applications have to go through an Apple review process. That's ridiculous for a government to explicitly agree to.

      • HumblyTossed 19 minutes ago
        What the heck does this defeatist argument have to do with it???
      • gumby271 14 minutes ago
        If [shitty thing] had been normalized years ago, we wouldn't be questioning [shitty thing]'s existence today. I mean, yeah dude.
  • dbbk 20 minutes ago
    What I've always found strange about this saga is that Apple's argument has been "we need to be reimbursed for our investments in R&D and maintenance of the App Store". I don't disagree, that seems fair. But they already DO charge explicitly for this... it's the developer program fee. Is this not the exact mechanism they should be using? As far as I can tell the court case didn't broach this.
    • Y-bar 6 minutes ago
      > The developer program fee.

      And the cost of the device sold to end users. And possibly other service fees such as iCloud subscriptions. These are avenues for Apple to earn money to invest in R&D.

    • bubblegumcrisis 13 minutes ago
      Imagine if Apple and Google and etc, didn't vendor lock-in.

      Imagine we could run what we wanted. Imagine that we could use whatever payment system we wanted.

      Imagine if apple wanted you to use Apple app X, it would need to compete and make it amazing, not just lock you in. Same with payment systems.

      Imagine if you could replace the battery of your old phone, and use it for as long as you wished. Without Apple forcing upgrades through their usual tactics.

      Apple tells me that it won't even accept applications that target pre-13 soon. And then pre-15 next year.

      I hate them.

      The fact that this is our current state of tech, tells me that all of the politicians are bought, and that the tech sector has rotten.

  • ApolloFortyNine 5 minutes ago
    >For App Store apps that link out of the app to complete purchases, the commission will be 15 percent. Developers in the programs mentioned above will pay a reduced rate of 10 percent.

    This is one of the most 'evil' policies I've simply ever heard of. I know today it's not even allowed to mention it, but it seems like the most slam dunk monopoly abuse possible. The damage to customers is clear, a company could charge 15% less and receive the same amount if they were simply 'allowed' to tell customers to go to their site. Somehow Fortnite did exactly this, got banned for it, and it still wasn't enough to put an end to it.

  • hoechst 9 minutes ago
    More details in the developer portal: https://developer.apple.com/support/apps-in-the-eu/

    It seams that for "reader apps" (like Netflix / Spotify), things got slightly better (https://developer.apple.com/support/reader-apps/#:~:text=16....):

    > Beginning October 1, 2026, reader apps distributed in the EU may promote out-of-app offers for digital goods and services without an actionable link [...]

    So you can now at least promote your offers, which was forbidden previously.

    A reader app is, in Apples words: "With reader apps, people can sign in to their account created outside the app, letting them view and enjoy previously purchased media content or content subscriptions on their Apple device."

  • arpinum 41 minutes ago
    > Web distribution, which is available only in the EU ... require every alternatively distributed app to go through Notarization — a baseline review focused on basic functionality and protection from serious threats.

    This is quite a big change for EU users. What I don't understand is how Apple will track the new 5% commission for web distributed apps. You do need to register for the programme, so maybe that is one way they track businesses and get a right to audit their books.

    • adrian_m 23 minutes ago
      It also seems they are very strict regarding who can notarize their apps.

      > Companies will now qualify if they:

      > * Meet a moderate financial-stability bar as scored by Dun & Bradstreet. > * Are publicly traded or owned by a publicly traded company. > * Have received venture funding from an established investment firm. > * Have completed a financial audit by a licensed accountant. > * Are a government entity, educational institution, or nonprofit.

      • Kwpolska 7 minutes ago
        Those requirements apply to direct distribution or alternate marketplaces. Developers not meeting those criteria can still participate in non-Apple distribution by submitting to an alternate marketplace.
        • bubblegumcrisis 0 minutes ago
          The "alternative marketplace" should be replaced with "no marketplace." How do people accept this "alternative marketplace" idea? This is obviously a way to increase friction in order to maintain dominance - and the solution is obvious - no marketplace at all.
      • lapcat 10 minutes ago
        No, those are the qualifications to run an app marketplace.

        Independent web distribution of an app requires only notarization.

    • lapcat 28 minutes ago
      > What I don't understand is how Apple will track the new 5% commission for web distributed apps.

      My understanding is that it's based entirely on self-reporting by developers.

      • cube00 26 minutes ago
        > My understanding is that it's based entirely on self-reporting by developers.

        I look forward to the bans and/or automated deductions issued when Apple's automated system believes you're lying, there's money at stake here so they'll be strict about it.

  • zoobab 43 minutes ago
    European Commission caved in, developers lost.
    • gpm 19 minutes ago
      Has the commission confirmed that these changes "resolve Apple’s disagreements with the Commission" or is that just like... Apple's wishful thinking.

      I definitely recall previous iterations where Apple announced changes to comply with legal requirements where the authorities ended up saying "this absolutely doesn't resolve the issue".

    • lsxr 39 minutes ago
      I’m not sure that’s how I’d characterise it. I think this is a positive step for consumers in the EU.

      I’d argue that it is Apple who have backed down here.

      • realusername 37 minutes ago
        Apps still need to go through Apple bureaucracy and they still take their cut. They are still free to ban any of those apps without any specific reason
        • throw1234567891 12 minutes ago
          As opposed to what? What’s the alternative you propose?
          • varun_ch 7 minutes ago
            not the OP, but I assume: Apps don't need to go through Apple and Apple doesn't get to take a cut?
          • realusername 8 minutes ago
            Just download the app from the website and install it
      • mytailorisrich 35 minutes ago
        Consumers never had an issue with Apple's app store. They don't care, frankly. In fact it makes it simpler for them.
        • realusername 19 minutes ago
          Every time you try to inform consumers how much Apple charges, Apple bans the app though.

          So even Apple thinks informing consumers on how the appstore works is a threat

    • mnewme 19 minutes ago
      Well at least 10x better than in the US now
  • tefkah 33 minutes ago
    > Apple today announced changes to its business terms for apps in the European Union, following close collaboration with the European Commission. These changes resolve Apple’s disagreements with the Commission over business terms and alternative distribution.

    this seems to imply the Commission signed off on this. I really can't imagine that this changes anything meaningfully wrt to the DMA?

  • Schnitz 22 minutes ago
    I wish Apple would extend these options to me as a US user and developer. I’m jealous to be honest.
  • ApolloFortyNine 14 minutes ago
    >Unified Business Terms for Developers That Distribute Apps in the EU Under this new model, Apple will charge a commission on the sale of digital goods and services. The Core Technology Fee, a per-install fee for developers that achieve extraordinary scale, will be replaced by the Core Technology Commission, a simple 5 percent commission on digital transactions in apps distributed outside the App Store. The new terms also eliminate the initial acquisition fee and store services fee.

    Imagine if every purchase of an application on Windows had to pay a 5% EU allowed Microsoft Monopoly tax.

    Is Apple still able to apply this to digital stores too, like Kindle ebooks, or has that at least been fixed? Because, again, imagine if Microsoft also required you to pay a 5% tax on every purchase made on Windows.

    It's just crazy that the EU literally worked with Apple to allow this.

  • isoprophlex 36 minutes ago
    > For App Store apps that link out of the app to complete purchases, the commission will be 15 percent. Developers in the programs mentioned above will pay a reduced rate of 10 percent.

    What the fuck. Does this also include apps that keep purchase management entirely out of the app? And if so, is that even legal?

    Hope I'm misreading this...

    Edit: to give some context to my "what the fuck is that even legal", consider this. my phone provider has an app that lets me modify my cell contract, and buy additional services (fast 5g, extra sims, whatever). Utility providers, grocery delivery platforms, many such cases. what's next for apple, will they come for their pound of flesh there, too?

    • throw1234567891 6 minutes ago
      If you place an upsale button in your app and then break out from the app to complete the purchase, yes. Are you living under a rock? It’s been like this for a bit. You want to avoid it? Don’t place the upsale button in your app.
  • Spacemolte 32 minutes ago
    So how are they trying to circumvent the EU regulations this time?
    • input_sh 28 minutes ago
      Have you tried reading the submitted URL?
      • layer8 11 minutes ago
        It would be better to read the page the URL links to.
  • theodric 30 minutes ago
    As I understand it:

    > A person buys a handheld computer

    > I make a program for the computer

    > A person downloads the program directly onto their computer

    > A person makes a purchase for services within my app on their computer

    > Somehow Apple gets 5% of the proceeds, despite being entirely uninvolved except for the initial sale of goods

    An analogous situation would be Mercedes-Benz demanding 5% of every ride booked in a taxi they manufactured, for the reason that they have to continue to make and sell parts for the vehicle, and everyone (including the EU) somehow being A-OK with it.

    • throw1234567891 1 minute ago
      I buy s Mercedes Benz. I want a warranty. I am forced to use an authorised service provider who’s expensive af and I risk losing the warranty otherwise. How is that not anticonsumer? I crash said car, the insurer will not insure my car until it’s fixed by an authorised technician. How is that not anticonsumer.
    • knollimar 6 minutes ago
      But mercedes benz makes sure all the taxi desinations are safe!
    • weberer 19 minutes ago
      They do it because they can. You're signaling that you're OK with it by continuing to buy Apple products.
  • joshstrange 2 minutes ago
    Apple just can't read the room can they? For a while I agreed with their stance to not allow web payments for things like IAP but as time has gone on the stance has become less and less defensible and tipped over in the absurd.

    I'll state plainly: Apple should get 0% of the non-Apple-processed payments.

    - You link out (or even payments in-app not through Apple): Apple gets 0%

    - You aren't in the app store: Apple gets 0%

    They should have to actually compete, do things like allow developers to give refunds, allow different monetization strategies (upgrade pricing?), make App Store Connect _not_ a steaming pile of shit.

    The rent-seeking has got to stop.

    Apple makes money on the hardware, Apple makes money off developers, Apple makes money off ads, Apple makes plenty of money. Taxing every financial activity (expect for the growing list of carve-outs which look sillier and sillier as time goes on) is beyond the pale.

    I will say that I think the 30% deal was a good deal when the App Store launched but times have changed, taking payments online has gotten easier, hosting something like the App Store has gotten cheaper, and the App Store does not provide enough value to deserve so rich a cut.

    The crap apps that sail by review while legitimately good and well-crafted Apps get held up is but one example. If App Review was faster and/or better we might be having a different conversation but Apple has not upheld its end of the bargain and has the audacity to still think they deserve a huge cut.

    There are whole categories of apps I wish I had on my iPhone that will never see the light of day because of Apple's policies and/or they are DOA because Apple wants 30% [0].

    If macOS launched today I probably wouldn't touch it with a 10ft pole because of how locked down it would be. Even now we have to fight to run the software we want unless it's signed. How Apple doesn't see that they are killing the golden goose is beyond me. There is plenty of money for them to make and the only way Apple can continue to squeeze is due to anti-competitive practices which harm all consumers.

    I still think the DMA was ham-fisted and written by complete morons but it was a step in the right direction. It's too bad our "elected" officials are bought and paid for and too busy engaging in one-upmanship or cheap shots to do anything close to actually governing.

    Lastly, I continue to find it disgusting and immoral how much money Apple makes off incredibly unsavory practices like the casinos for children (and adults) they promote and encourage (gems, coins, tokens, loot boxes, and the list goes on). Our corrupt politicians are complicit in abdicating any responsibility for the cesspool which is 99% of IAP.

    [0] Yes, I know it's 15% for small business but while they tout that regularly it's not so black and white. There are cliffs, it's not progressive, and you have to apply for it. 1 good year can screw you over and using just revenue as the marker is wrong IMHO.

  • bubblegumcrisis 21 minutes ago
    Why can't we just use our computers the way we want to use our computers? It is so dumb that vendor lock-in even exists, and I'm sick of it.
  • MBCook 45 minutes ago
    They’re starting to cave.

    Turnis taking the reins perhaps?

    This has clearly been tilting at windmills this entire time. They were never going to win. How much time and money could they have saved by giving a reasonable amount instead of sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling “la la la I can’t hear you why do you love criminals”?

    • brcmthrowaway 38 minutes ago
      Exited my Apple position.

      Ternus is going to be the last CEO. They're going to be next Nokia, lack of AI native is going to bite them hard.

      • OneDeuxTriSeiGo 33 minutes ago
        Is this a bot comment or something? What does AI have to do with any of this? And regardless Apple is in many ways best in class for local AI support.
      • reaperducer 14 minutes ago
        Exited my Apple position.

        Good. It will allow you to learn how little your "position" matters.

        Apple cares about the hundreds of billions of dollars held by large investors, not some rando Reddit-grade Wall Street wannabe.

      • slater 36 minutes ago
        Luckily, none of that is even remotely close to happening.
      • HumblyTossed 15 minutes ago
        Nobody cares about AI. Nobody wants that shit running on their device eating away at precious battery life.
  • kotaKat 35 minutes ago
    > For users under 13 years old, apps from the App Store cannot link out to websites for transactions to protect against the risk of scams that target younger kids.

    So that means Fortnite can't link out, right? Or does this mean because it's being delivered by the Epic Games Store, they can bypass that rule?

    • burnhamup 24 minutes ago
      It depends on how old the user is. If the player is over 18, Fortnite can link out. I guess you call some Apple API to link out and they check the user's age for you before deciding if its allowed or not?
  • nickslaughter02 41 minutes ago
    [flagged]
    • lsxr 38 minutes ago
      What are these “European” value requirements? Apps sold in the EU must comply with local laws.
      • nickslaughter02 32 minutes ago
        Anything EPP and their Ursula von der Leyen think they are. Mandatory surveillance of your communication for example, something they have been trying and slowly succeeding in for the past 5 years.

        > Chat Control 1.0 passed the European Parliament — through the back door

        https://www.euronews.com/next/2026/07/10/chat-control-10-pas...

        • squigz 25 minutes ago
          Wait until you learn what America does and that "the rich and powerful abusing their position to become even more rich and powerful" is not really "European values"
      • flyingjoe 35 minutes ago
        don't feed the trolls - most of his comments are focussed on how bad Europe or the EU is. Weird.
        • kingleopold 27 minutes ago
          There is an ongoing massive psyop against eu and europe. Dont ask me how do I know, it's across all media and some of them are right but its still full psyop.
          • flyingjoe 18 minutes ago
            It's very obvious from just reading comments on youtube, instagram etc. It drives people towards extreme right parties and not believing in science anymore..
        • mnewme 18 minutes ago
          Yes, eurohate is real. Don’t get why though
        • iwontberude 31 minutes ago
          [dead]