11 comments

  • bob1029 36 minutes ago
    A natural evolution of engineers losing touch with the customers and users.

    I'm noticing some of the concern play out regarding AI weakening the capabilities of software people.

    I gave the team an exact solution on a silver platter and they still failed to identify how to go about it after 3 days slamming it into Claude. The resolution is literally 1 line of code that could be arrived at in about 30 minutes of patient, old school troubleshooting.

    I think what's happening is the AI system draws poorly aligned and led engineers into this ego inflation feedback loop where they are completely detached from reality because these tools can simulate a better one.

    • edg5000 26 minutes ago
      I it usually doesn't get me in this weird state of mind, but I once spent 6 months (all-in) building a thing that I, once finished, just left alone completely (on disk gathering dust). Weird experience. So I'd say AI physchosis is real.
    • Root_Denied 28 minutes ago
      I'm seeing this happen in the security space right now. Someone on my team I was helping train and bring along is all of sudden regressing in their understanding of the issues we're working on, and instead focusing on AI tool outputs to do their job for them.
      • mawadev 4 minutes ago
        I can share a weird story:

        Usually, I take my time to understand each keyword of the code I'm looking at, especially if it is new to me, like terraform.

        I work in a team/with one architect, who only did the DevOps/Infra stuff for the past years and I had the expectation he knows what he is doing and talking about.

        At around 2 weeks, I noticed how his knowledge has severe gaps and how he takes things at face value or uses terminology interchangably, which confuses me. It sounds plausible, but it does not actually translate into a working system or shared understanding.

        Then one day I did some pair programming with him and whenever there was an error or a resource missing, he would type it into the LLM, copy paste it out of it and then brute force error messages. He did not even wait a second to think or reconcile whats happening on the screen or what the exact requirement is. Never taking one step back and questioning any assumption.

        Now that the timeline is shifting and everyone starts to be stressed, he continues to vibe code through me and it is so tiring, there is no higher level planning or architecture, its just a reactive type of trial and error to be faster. It feels like these people are so used to talking to bots, that they treat you like an agent they can chat to or talk through monologs with.

        It is quite shocking how people went from being humble (learn the basics or close the gaps in understanding) to full on authority on everything and berating people 24/7...

        So right now I'm considering quitting IT for a couple of years until people calm down, but I think its pretty futile

      • coffeebeqn 4 minutes ago
        At least at my company the OKRs are quite clear and demand heavy AI utilization above all else
    • PunchyHamster 11 minutes ago
      I don't think it's engineers, it's the rest of the org insulating the tech workers from every side of the business
    • ulrikrasmussen 23 minutes ago
      I think LLMs have some of the same risks and benefits of stimulant drugs. They can make you more productive if used effectively as a tool, but they can also delude you into thinking you are better than you are and create a dependence such that you aren't just less productive without the LLM/drug, you fail to be productive at all because you don't know how to function without it.
    • throw839948499 16 minutes ago
      If the solution is so simple, why claude did not found it? At this point we can assume, it is better than 90% of engineers (including me).

      After three decades of outsourcing to lowest bidder, I do not buy that humans are somehow better!

      > patient, old school troubleshooting

      I usually see similar arguments around systems with major red flags (no docs, poor CI, decade ago no CVS...). And engineers with private stash of workarounds for job security!

      Claude does not do anything special.

      Or perhaps claude was misconfigured, it had no access to relevant part of system, and it tryied to work within its limitation. Often it means decompiling binaries in desperate loop...

      • Sharlin 8 minutes ago
        So after 30 years of outsourcing to the bottom 10%, you think Claude is better than the bottom 90% even though it’s so stupid that it doesn’t even know it should ask for advice or more information when it’s stuck?
      • shakna 9 minutes ago
        Claude regular spits out six helper functions instead of... A twenty line for loop. It overengineers most things.

        Overabstracting, deduplicating things that don't need to be. Building metaclasses because it saw a single orchestrator in the whole codebase.

        If it is a better engineer than you... You need practice.

      • bob1029 8 minutes ago
        That final 10% is the hard part. 90% is easy.
  • danielbln 41 minutes ago
    If capability increase continues as it has, then an incident that cannot be resolved by AI will stump humans no matter the practice.

    I like the plane example from the article,but I think in reality it will be like code. 1.5 years ago engineers would routinely say that they still write code by hand here or there to keep their skills sharp, and that's just not something you hear much if at all.

    If an SRE is faced with a situation an AI can't solve, then said SRE will use the AI systems to triage further, point it to different places and so on.

    This works for SREs with pre-AI experience and intuition, possibly less so with new recruits coming in post-AI. I don't know what the solution to this is, maybe practice drills is it, but I have a hunch the entire field will be subsumed, same as many other engineering fields.

    There is only so much need for taste and judgement, before even that has been incorporated into the models.

    • bob1029 15 minutes ago
      > If capability increase continues as it has, then an incident that cannot be resolved by AI will stump humans no matter the practice.

      I disagree with this. Whatever the AI produces must be embodied in some kind of information system. The moment the output is on disk, it's fish in a barrel for any competent operator.

      I've worked in environments that are beyond the pale with regard to complexity. It will take AI another 10 years to product something as complicated and coherent as a semiconductor manufacturing operating system, which is clearly feasible for humans to manage today.

    • sdevonoes 36 minutes ago
      Nah, LLM models are already the new compilers. A commodity only engineers know how to use (in the context of software engineering in production environments)
  • jtfrench 36 minutes ago
    The more code writes autonomously, the less intuition the human owners have about that code. Loss of intuition is a seed of technical debt that grows with time. Over a long enough horizon, it can make looking at your own codebase feel like the first day on the job (sometimes at a company you started).

    Luckily, there are ways to mitigate this and essentially translate those human intuition of how the codebase “should” be into guardrails for the agents. But without that, your setting your sails in a stochastic sea where each wave looks nothing like the last.

    • yard2010 3 minutes ago
      I've been thinking about this lately - is it like using 3rd party libs to achieve stuff faster? As much as I would lovr to hand craft the datetime logic in my app, I might as well use luxon and invest this time somewhere else. Only now with llms, you get virtually infinite 3rd party libs you can use, you create them on the fly. So if you have strong engineering values, I would say simply it boils down to "contracts over programs", you can still be in touch with the logic that glues it all together and treat some logic as a blackbox the same way we do with 3rd party libs?
  • onion2k 20 minutes ago
    Anyone who's worked in tech in a large company will probably have experienced having an ops team who use RPA tools to do repetitive tasks that tech teams get the blame for when things break. AI will make this so much worse. Things will break, everyone will assume 'tech knows the system', but really it's a new process outside of the tech teams that someone vibe coded but got it wrong.

    Audit trails, logs, and tight data governance where things can only be accessed with proper roles is the only possible solution.

    If an RPA team ever gets direct access to a production database in your company, look for a new job.

    • QuantumNomad_ 15 minutes ago
      > Robotic process automation is a type of business process automation that automates tasks within business and IT processes using scripts that mimic human interaction with application user interfaces.

      For anyone else wondering what RPA means. Never heard that abbreviation before.

  • krtkush 26 minutes ago
    I find the use of AI like quicksand.

    The more I use it, the more I have to rely on it to make changes/ fix things in the same system. In the end, I come out feeling empty; no intuitive knowledge of the system "I" built or fixed.

    Code review is important but it does not replace the mental model I am able to build when I do all the steps of software development manually without AI.

  • bitlad 16 minutes ago
    We have been running Agents on infrastructure and letting to create resources, scale up and down, security scans etc.

    I agree with premise of thr blog. The question i have been asking internal does knowing your system really matter if you can recreate it in minutes.

    We recently had a situation, where in with our internal platform and claude we recreated everything in minutes.

    Management in the end cares about the outcome and not how the meat is made.

  • ThePhysicist 25 minutes ago
    Isn't there anywhere to "go" from here? In the last decades, introducing new high level abstractions on top of existing paradigms naturally had everyone move up the ladder and work at the next higher level, why should this be different these days? Do we think AI will reach the top of the abstraction ceiling, so there's no where to go from here?
    • davenci 18 minutes ago
      That’s the big question for sure
  • _doctor_love 37 minutes ago
    Good article and I like the callouts to the aviation industry. For me what's missing is the author should also have touched on CRM and SRM.

    Also, that paper "The Ironies of Automation" is one that everyone should read. It's fairly short.

    There is a related problem in terms of these situations where the computer system is handing off to the human. It's called "the bumpy transfer of control." Very fascinating concept.

  • intended 35 minutes ago
    Ironies of Automation is front and center in this article which is awesome. Many of the conversations on AI automation are describing or rediscovering the insights the paper covered.
  • everlier 22 minutes ago
    "THIS IS NOT A DRILL"
  • alescalaios 6 minutes ago
    [flagged]